Vintage Guitar quote...

[FredZepp]

From the book. "Vintage Guitar, ..The instruments, the players , the music"

...From the section on archtops,

"Gibson, the last remaining giant from the archtop's early days, was slow to respond to the initial increase in demand for it's carved guitars. This was partly because the corporate parent was trying to sell Gibson in the early 1980's. When Gibson completed a disruptive move from Kalamazoo, Michigan, to Nashville, Tennessee, in 1984, many of its experienced archtop builders stayed behind , leaving Gibson understaffed for making that style of guitar. History was repeated when in a situation reminiscent of Epiphone's move 30 years earlier, former Gibson formed the Heritage Guitar Company in Kalamazoo and began building some excellent archtops similiar to those Gibson had produced in the same location."

 

( the Epiphone reference is to when Epi moved from NY to PA, and many of the workers left behind in the move joined a new company started on NY , Guild. )

[smurph1]

Interesting Stuff..I didn't know that Guild was the result of a move by Epiphone..Cool..

[FredZepp]

From the book. "Vintage Guitar, ..The instruments, the players , the music"

...From the section on archtops,

"Gibson, the last remaining giant from the archtop's early days, was slow to respond to the initial increase in demand for it's carved guitars. This was partly because the corporate parent was trying to sell Gibson in the early 1980's. When Gibson completed a disruptive move from Kalamazoo, Michigan, to Nashville, Tennessee, in 1984, many of its experienced archtop builders stayed behind , leaving Gibson understaffed for making that style of guitar. History was repeated when in a situation reminiscent of Epiphone's move 30 years earlier, former Gibson employees formed the Heritage Guitar Company in Kalamazoo and began building some excellent archtops similiar to those Gibson had produced in the same location."

 

( the Epiphone reference is to when Epi moved from NY to PA, and many of the workers left behind in the move joined a new company started on NY , Guild. )

 

.....sorry , had to fix a small typo... re-posted..

[111518]

From the book. "Vintage Guitar, ..The instruments, the players , the music"

...From the section on archtops,

"Gibson, the last remaining giant from the archtop's early days, was slow to respond to the initial increase in demand for it's carved guitars. This was partly because the corporate parent was trying to sell Gibson in the early 1980's. When Gibson completed a disruptive move from Kalamazoo, Michigan, to Nashville, Tennessee, in 1984, many of its experienced archtop builders stayed behind , leaving Gibson understaffed for making that style of guitar. History was repeated when in a situation reminiscent of Epiphone's move 30 years earlier, former Gibson employees formed the Heritage Guitar Company in Kalamazoo and began building some excellent archtops similiar to those Gibson had produced in the same location."

 

( the Epiphone reference is to when Epi moved from NY to PA, and many of the workers left behind in the move joined a new company started on NY , Guild. )

 

.....sorry , had to fix a small typo... re-posted..

[111518]

--sorry, screwed something up in trying to add to this thread.

There's a very strong family resemblance between early Guild guitars and NY Epiphones, most immediately apparent in the way they both used a thin dark strip, or strips, in the center of their multi-piece necks, but also in the general feel of the guitars.

 

Some of you know that I'm a fan of the old US Epi's (even though the few I ever owned got away from me), so a bit more info, mostly from Fisch and Fred, Epiphone: the House of Strathopoulo...

"Epi," E.A. Stathopoulo, the guy who built the co. and successfully led it from being a banjo producer to a major competitor in the archtop market, died in 1949. His sons took over, but fought with each other and did not maintain good relationships with the workers. There was a strike in 1951; Orphie, the brother who had become pres., took the name and machinery to Philadelphia, and sold distribution rights to a division of C.G. Conn. However, after they had assembled the parts they brought with them, they were never really able to re-establish themselves as a quality manufacturer and sold out to Gibson in '57. Gibson originally wanted the machinery Epi had used to build a ply acoustic bass, but also got a bunch of guitar parts and the name, and decided to use that stuff to launch a new line of guitars that would allow it to establish dealerships not locked into its exclusive Gibson franchise arrangements.

 

Meanwhile, back in NY, George Mann, who had been an Epi manager, partnered with Alfred Dronge, a guitarist and a manufacturer of accordians, to capitalize on the skill of the former Epi workers to start Guild. (name is interesting, since these were the old union guys.) When Mann left, Herb Sunshine, another long-time NY Epi guy, became Dronge's manager of guitar production. Eventually, Guild would buy up some of the original Epiphone machinery as well.

 

So, there are interesting connections to the Gibson/Heritage story. Kick in that Heritage founder Jim Deurloo left Gibson to work for Guild from '69 to '74, and you have another interesting connection.

[FredZepp]

Thanks for the add-on regarding Epi, interesting historical notes...

[Neanderthal]

Coolness. Thanks for the info!

[big bob]

this is a great thread, thanks

[JohnCovach]

However, after they had assembled the parts they brought with them, they were never really able to re-establish themselves as a quality manufacturer and sold out to Gibson in '57. Gibson originally wanted the machinery Epi had used to build a ply acoustic bass, but also got a bunch of guitar parts and the name, and decided to use that stuff to launch a new line of guitars that would allow it to establish dealerships not locked into its exclusive Gibson franchise arrangements.

 

In the Gil Hembree book on Ted McCarty, Gil says somewhere that both Gibson and Epiphone offices were in the same building in K'zoo, but they used different mailing addresses to keep up the illusion that the companies were more separate than they actually were. As I recall from the book, Epiphone used an address from the street on the other end of the Parsons Street factory. I seem to also recall that Fred Gretsch had a hand in getting McCarty to buy Epiphone. The guitar business was a lot smaller back then, I guess.

[blueox]

CMI built a new building in 1960 just to the north of the original Gibson plant to manufacturer Epiphones. The whole complex covered a city block with the north end facing Bush St. As mentioned, they used 210 Bush St. for Epiphone and, of course, 225 Parsons St. for Gibson. I remember getting the color catalogs with the different return addresses from each company, plus I remember seeing the separate Bush St. entrance with foyer for Epiphone. As mentioned in "Gibson Electrics - The Classic Years By A. R. Duchossoir", each company had its own network of franchised dealers which helped CMI get more guitar distribution, since Gibson didn't want too many outlets for the Gibson brand within an area. I have a special feeling for Epiphones, as Otis Rush played a Riviera, and an excellent-condition, used 1964 Crestwood Deluxe was my first good guitar. It came with a worn chipboard case, and I wanted a hardshell, so I went down to Jackson's Jewelry (the local Gibson dealer on Michigan Ave.) and bought an Epiphone case. The store owner made a call, gave me a slip of paper, and sent me out to the Gibson plant where I was to go into a side door into the factory and pick up my case. Seth Lover designed the smaller, brighter-sounding "baby humbucker" pickups for the Epiphones which were also later used on such Gibsons as the Les Paul Deluxe. Kalamazoo-built Epiphones were of the same quality as the Gibsons but had enough differences to make them unique. My Epiphone Crestwood Deluxe, sold in 2006:

[rjsanders]

In the Gil Hembree book on Ted McCarty, Gil says somewhere that both Gibson and Epiphone offices were in the same building in K'zoo, but they used different mailing addresses to keep up the illusion that the companies were more separate than they actually were. As I recall from the book, Epiphone used an address from the street on the other end of the Parsons Street factory. I seem to also recall that Fred Gretsch had a hand in getting McCarty to buy Epiphone. The guitar business was a lot smaller back then, I guess.

 

 

i almost met Fred Gretsch @ Winter NAMM '03 in the Fender room. Gretsch had been acquired Fender. i wanted to say hi, but he didn't look at all happy in the crowd. maybe it was just a bad day...

 

[JohnCovach]

i almost met Fred Gretsch @ Winter NAMM '03 in the Fender room. Gretsch had been acquired Fender. i wanted to say hi, but he didn't look at all happy in the crowd. maybe it was just a bad day...

 

 

That Fred Gretsch is the grandson, I believe. There is a pretty reliable story that this younger Gretsch approached Heritage about making Gretsch guitars when he was re-organizing the company. I'm not sure why Heritage said no (though I can think of a couple of good reasons). I'd like to ask one of the Heritage guys about that some time. Anyway, the Japanese-made Gretsch guitars are great, and even better since Fender has been managing production and distribution.

[FredZepp]

Interesting contributions to this thread.... (cool looking Crestwood)

[rjsanders]

That Fred Gretsch is the grandson, I believe. There is a pretty reliable story that this younger Gretsch approached Heritage about making Gretsch guitars when he was re-organizing the company. I'm not sure why Heritage said no (though I can think of a couple of good reasons). I'd like to ask one of the Heritage guys about that some time. Anyway, the Japanese-made Gretsch guitars are great, and even better since Fender has been managing production and distribution.

 

 

yes, i believe he's the grandson of the founder and the nephew of Fred, Jr. they've had a heckuva history w/the sale to Baldwin (and Baldwin belongs to Gibson now?), then the deal w/Fender. i always dug the look of their smaller-bodied guits. tried a Hot Rod once, but the controls didn't make any sense to me...

 

Heritage has had a hand in a lot of other names' builds over the years. D'angelico, e.g., IIRC...

 

[JohnCovach]

yes, i believe he's the grandson of the founder and the nephew of Fred, Jr. they've had a heckuva history w/the sale to Baldwin (and Baldwin belongs to Gibson now?), then the deal w/Fender. i always dug the look of their smaller-bodied guits. tried a Hot Rod once, but the controls didn't make any sense to me...

 

Heritage has had a hand in a lot of other names' builds over the years. D'Angelico, e.g., IIRC...

 

 

There was a Heritage-build D'Angelico on ebay some time back and we discussed that a bit. I think the best guess is that it was build on spec, or something like that. Anyone remember?

[SouthpawGuy]

There was a Heritage-build D'Angelico on ebay some time back and we discussed that a bit. I think the best guess is that it was build on spec, or something like that. Anyone remember?

 

I remember that one, the pics might be in the gallery.

[SouthpawGuy]

Here's a link to a previous topic:

 

http://www.heritageownersclub.com/forums/i...hl=D%27Angelico

 

 

 

>>>>> <<<<<<

 

I'm sure there was a natural finish one as well.

[rjsanders]

i've seen elsewhere that Heritage built top-of-the-line Gretsches in the '90's (but one of the sources is Ed Roman, so...)...

 

[DC Ron]

 

This is labeled "Jay's new Heritage D'Angelico"

[mark555]

Love the knowledge that comes out in these threads.. Also love the Epiphone in the pic, Bluebox, I do;t know how you could have parted with that guitar... By the way, hi and welcome to HOC.

[111518]

Here's a link to a different, earlier thread about these guitars.

http://www.heritageownersclub.com/forums/i...p?showtopic=527

[Steiner]

They still have a New Yorker in the rack within the prototype/conference room. A blonde with no electronics. She's perddy...

[rjsanders]

They still have a New Yorker in the rack within the prototype/conference room. A blonde with no electronics. She's perddy...

 

 

xlnt! what else is in there?

 

 

 

[Steiner]

xlnt! what else is in there?

 

 

 

 

Whatever you heart desires!

[rjsanders]

Whatever you heart desires!

 

then i'll take the 8-lb H-157 all-mahogany Black Beauty w/staple P-90 in the neck position, D-VIP XI w/Flux Capacitor-to-CRM-114 interface...