fxdx99 Posted October 5, 2009 Posted October 5, 2009 Had a '66, sold it, realized I need a PR in the amp toolbox. For those of you that cherish the tone these amps provide, what would you recommend to fill this nitch... pony up the funds for a blackface, go for the less expensive silverface, get a new reissue, or go a boutique route?
yoslate Posted October 5, 2009 Posted October 5, 2009 Oh, Randy.... I had a '65 Princeton, in really good shape. Sold it for what I thought was the prince(ton)ly price of $500. A fab girlfriend from the days of yore bought it as a birthday gift for me...$175. Wish I had it back, not because of the bucks, it's just a great box! I've been unsucessful in finding the Princeton "it" in other things, many of which were even modded. So I'm going the custom route. I'm having George, the guy who built "The Note" for me, do a little combo. But I'm going with more of a Deluxe size amp. 20/25 watts, EL34 (again), 1x12", in the smallest and lightest package we can assemble (just volume, and tone controls with an fx loop...that's it. I'll use a pedal or two with it). Should work at the house; should work at the jam. Very portable, plenty of headroom (which you likely won't have with a vintage Princeton). If you're sold on the Princeton, the blackface prices are just silly! Silverfaces, getting there. And I think after '67 there were differences in the circuits...Slider would know. You could get a Silverface and mod it...sending money after money. And would it have enough chutzpah to play out, if that's what you want it for? Kuz is big on the Headstrong stuff. They apparently do really great versions of Fender combos! I think some of the older Gibson amps (also catching on, with prices going up, to boot) are comparable to the small Fender combos. I played a '57 Gibson GA-30 (15W +/-) a month ago that had the best combo vintage blues tone (with surprising headroom), in an emminently portable package, that I've ever heard...jaw dropping! The guy picked it up for $250 and had it re-capped. I offered $800 on the spot, but he wouldn't take it. So having gassed on here, I just realized I've been absolutely no help. Get a Headstrong....
Gitfiddler Posted October 5, 2009 Posted October 5, 2009 Too many options, but none are bad! 1. Shop around for a clean vintage blackface Princeton. Could be pricey, and you may end up putting a bit more cash into it to make it sing for ya, but you'll never lose a dime at resale. 2. Shop around for a clean vintage silverface Princeton. Should not be too pricey and what you save from going silver and not black, you can mod the daylights out of it and still not be into it too deep. Here's a good SF example: http://www.superiormusic.com/page082.htm 3. Shop around for a good used Princeton Reissue. They have a good reputation already, and they do come up on the Gear Page and the Bay every so often. I'm sure you can also find a tech who will mod it to suit your taste. 4. Shop around for a new Princeton Reissue. 5. Headstrong or Victoria or Carr or.....(fill in the boutique blank of your choosing, and budget). Whatever you decide, it will be a fun hunt and I bet you'll end up with a cool little amp. Good luck.
Jazzpunk Posted October 5, 2009 Posted October 5, 2009 Get a Headstrong.... That'd be my vote as well. I'd love to get one of their Royal Reverbs (Deluxe Reverb clone) but they're just too pricey new and I've yet to see one on the used market. Leaning towards Clark at the moment as their blackface clone prices are very reasonable compared to the competition and they have a very solid reputation.
fxdx99 Posted October 5, 2009 Author Posted October 5, 2009 Thanks - good input. Headstrong's aren't cheap are they? Rob, my Allen is my 'gig at volume' amp and is basically a mod'd Deluxe Reverb (takes either 6V6 for 22W or 6L6 for 40W - cool/trick bias feature on the back of amp makes tube swap easy). Excellent amp, although more than I need in some circumstances (low volume coffee house or dinner places without drums). Would likely swap to a 12" spkr/baffle if going the Fender route, so there's some savings in looking at a non-fender version. Do want the reverb and tremelo that the PR provides. Might just look at the Allen version again... Didn't know Clark was doing blackface type, will look at them as well. Locally, Savage amps is near me, but they don't have a model in that veign (some tasty stuff, tho). Do have a 52 Gibsonette (~5W) and a 56 Gibson GA6 (~8W) and they're great bluesy amps and get used often in these quieter gigs... but need (yeh need, not want...) a PR. That lush/deep/clean tone just hits the spot.
yoslate Posted October 5, 2009 Posted October 5, 2009 Thanks - good input. Headstrong's aren't cheap are they? Rob, my Allen is my 'gig at volume' amp and is basically a mod'd Deluxe Reverb (takes either 6V6 for 22W or 6L6 for 40W - cool/trick bias feature on the back of amp makes tube swap easy). Excellent amp, although more than I need in some circumstances (low volume coffee house or dinner places without drums). Would likely swap to a 12" spkr/baffle if going the Fender route, so there's some savings in looking at a non-fender version. Do want the reverb and tremelo that the PR provides. Might just look at the Allen version again... Didn't know Clark was doing blackface type, will look at them as well. Locally, Savage amps is near me, but they don't have a model in that veign (some tasty stuff, tho). Do have a 52 Gibsonette (~5W) and a 56 Gibson GA6 (~8W) and they're great bluesy amps and get used often in these quieter gigs... but need (yeh need, not want...) a PR. That lush/deep/clean tone just hits the spot. Heh! Sounds like a man who wants a Princeton! It's a short life, Randy. After a time, a man ought to have what he wants!
Kuz Posted October 7, 2009 Posted October 7, 2009 Headstrong Lil King Got one, was at PSP2. LOVE it. It is a exact copy of the Priceton Reverb. New goes for around $1400. Used for what $1000-1100. FWIW, I would go the Headsteong over an original Blackface, for reliability. (That said my favorite amp is my '67 Vibrolux. Something that 40 years of mojo that can't be reissued!)
Jazzpunk Posted October 9, 2009 Posted October 9, 2009 FWIW, I would go the Headstrong over an original Blackface, for reliability. (That said my favorite amp is my '67 Vibrolux. Something that 40 years of mojo that can't be reissued!) Not sure if you're over on TGP but there's a new 'Lil King Jr.' coming out! Here's the info from co-developer, Jim Soloway: "As much as I love my Headstrong Lil' King, I wanted something that was even smaller and warmed up at a really low volume level but would maintain those lovely Blackface Class A/b cleans.. I went back and forth with Wayne Jones from Headstrong for a while until he finally came up with a design that we both thought would work. The prototype arrived this morning with the working name Lil' King Junior. He's shrunk the cabinet a bit from it's previous Princeton Reverb size and gone back to a 10" speaker. The total weight is now a svelte 25lbs. It uses the same tube complement as the full size Lil' King but he's tweaked the circuit to bring the power down to 9 watts. I think it sounds just glorious. The Junior being built to order and is only available from Soloway Guitars. The price is $1450 for the combo and $1400 for the head. It's available in black, brown and blonde with silver, wheat or Oxblood grill clothes." Here's a sound clip (WARNING: MAY INDUCE GAS!): http://www.jimsoloway.com/TascamDemos/LilKingJr-1.mp3 And pic (Jr. is on the right):
BigMike Posted October 9, 2009 Posted October 9, 2009 Princetons are basically single channel Deluxe Reverbs with a 10 inch speaker... To me the Princeton is a great amp with one big weakness, that 10 inch speaker. I just closed a deal for my 2nd Fuchs ODS amp - this one a 70s Princeton Reverb completely redone by Andy Fuchs, the guy then ordered a maple/mahogany Sultone cabinet. He had the cabinet made deep enough to replicate the internal volume depth of a Deluxe and got a Eminence C-Rex 12 inch speaker and a Mercury Magnetics OT sized for a Deluxe... So basically it started out as a Princeton and is now a Deluxe in Princeton clothing - This one I can't wait to get - I'm still finding the sweet spots of my Music Man 112 Fuchs ODS... If you can find an EARLY 70s Princeton Reverb a decent tech can slap it back to Blackface in no time... When it comes to resale time though a real original '65 era Princeton Reverb is like buying Apple stock, it's just gonna go up in value long term. No excuses, it's the real deal.... Having had a early 70s Deluxe Reverb totally blackfaced by a tech in San Francisco ( Amptronics on 9th Street ) I gotta say if you do go the blackfaced route you will love what you get... Best of luck in your hunt.
BigMike Posted October 9, 2009 Posted October 9, 2009 For some reason I can't re-edit my post. My apologies the place is GUITRONICS http://www.yelp.com/biz/guitronics-san-francisco
Gitfiddler Posted October 9, 2009 Posted October 9, 2009 Big~ That is one sweet looking amp!!!!!!!!!!!!!
slider313 Posted October 9, 2009 Posted October 9, 2009 I had a '69 Silverface with an Altec Lansing greybell alnico 10 that was a killer amp. This amp got me Duane/Dickey "Blue Sky" tone all day. CBS/Fender didn't screw with the circuit until December of 1970. Right up until then they were (Princetons) all pretty much blackfaces in silver clothing. Even the cabinets retained the fingerjoint pine construction with the floating baffle. I would go for a late '68- mid '70 as the prices are right and it's a vintage Fender that will only increase in value.
BigMike Posted October 9, 2009 Posted October 9, 2009 Slider's right about the Fenders - you get one up to about '74 and any competent tech can "blackface" it for you with no sweat... TIM: Here's a couple more shots of the cabinet - you can see from the back shot how the chassis is not as deep as the cabinet - to replicate the cabinet depth of the Deluxe and have that 12 inch speaker doing it's thing properly... When Andy Fuchs gets done with an amp it's like brand new - brand new... You look around you can find a lot of used Fuchs ODS modded amps for sale. I got my Music Man for $1300.00. The sound and pick dynamics and sustain are mind boggling - it's not a plug and play amp - there are so many amazing variables you can attain it takes a while to find the couple 3 or 4 sweet zones you like... this is so much more than the Deluxe with the Dumble pedal or Trainwreck pedal sound Tim... I know it's a little more than the $1000.00 limit you set and I truly understand how being married and having responsibilities ongoing and coming up can keep you in check... Good luck on both fronts.
slider313 Posted October 9, 2009 Posted October 9, 2009 Slider's right about the Fenders - you get one up to about '74 and any competent tech can "blackface" it for you with no sweat... The big difference in Princetons after December 1970 (model B1270) is the change in the construction of the cabinet and baffle and the use of the 5U4GB rectifier. The 5U4 gives the amp more compression especially at higher volumes.
erplander Posted October 13, 2009 Posted October 13, 2009 Another vote for the Headstrong Lil King. I have the head version and love it. Found it on the bay a year ago for about $800. Run it into an OS 1x12 with a Scumback H75 speaker. This little rig sounds great! I really love the tremolo of the Headstrong.
Jazzpunk Posted November 7, 2009 Posted November 7, 2009 Had a '66, sold it, realized I need a PR in the amp toolbox. For those of you that cherish the tone these amps provide, what would you recommend to fill this nitch... pony up the funds for a blackface, go for the less expensive silverface, get a new reissue, or go a boutique route? Ever decide on anything? I've got a Lil King coming...pretty excited!
fxdx99 Posted November 7, 2009 Author Posted November 7, 2009 I noticed that in your tag and was gonna ask you about it. Haven't pulled the trigger on anything yet, although the Headstrong is definitely on the short list. Let us know what you think of it.
Gitfiddler Posted November 7, 2009 Posted November 7, 2009 Slider's right about the Fenders - you get one up to about '74 and any competent tech can "blackface" it for you with no sweat... TIM: Here's a couple more shots of the cabinet - you can see from the back shot how the chassis is not as deep as the cabinet - to replicate the cabinet depth of the Deluxe and have that 12 inch speaker doing it's thing properly... When Andy Fuchs gets done with an amp it's like brand new - brand new... You look around you can find a lot of used Fuchs ODS modded amps for sale. I got my Music Man for $1300.00. The sound and pick dynamics and sustain are mind boggling - it's not a plug and play amp - there are so many amazing variables you can attain it takes a while to find the couple 3 or 4 sweet zones you like... this is so much more than the Deluxe with the Dumble pedal or Trainwreck pedal sound Tim... I know it's a little more than the $1000.00 limit you set and I truly understand how being married and having responsibilities ongoing and coming up can keep you in check... Good luck on both fronts. Mike~ That is a fantastic amp ya got there! And the Sultone Cabinet is the bomb! You've got great taste in gits and amps, man! Tim
Jazzpunk Posted November 14, 2009 Posted November 14, 2009 I noticed that in your tag and was gonna ask you about it. Haven't pulled the trigger on anything yet, although the Headstrong is definitely on the short list. Let us know what you think of it. The Lil King arrived and I'm lovin it! So much so that I just jumped on a Royal Reverb as well! I wanted something that would nail the Fender Blackface thing but that could easily be biased for either 6V6's or 6L6's (lower price tag on the used market was a plus as well). I've found my answer with the Headstrong line.
Jazzpunk Posted November 15, 2009 Posted November 15, 2009 Not to tempt you guys or anything but there's a rash of Lil Kings for sale all of a sudden on TGP! I didn't see any for months but they're going like hotcakes all of a sudden lol. Just saw one listed for $995 which is a great deal IMO.
hubberjub Posted November 16, 2009 Posted November 16, 2009 Face on shot of the Princeton Fuchs I lusted after that amp when it was on Ebay. Congrats on an obviously outstanding amp. It doesn't seem like Andy mods to many of the Deluxes. That's too bad since I have no need for a more powerful amp. My 20 watt Soldano is more than enough for me.
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