Florin Posted October 14, 2009 Posted October 14, 2009 Hi all, and thanks for providing a great forum. My name is Florin, and all things working according to plan, I will call myself a Heritage Owner soon. In searching for my perfect archtop, I happened upon a reputable dealer (non-Heritage) who has a few in stock, but warned me that approximately one in three jazz Heritage archtops that go through his hands have a lower neck upcurl that required removing the last 8-10 frets and planing the board and re-fretting. I do trust this dealer, but this info seems inconsistent with what I have been able to read on the HOC forum and elsewhere. It could also be that the owners of such instruments would be more likely to get rid of them, hence the high incidence of pre-owned curvy necks in his shop. Any thoughts on neck stability in the long run? I am looking at a 2008 GE, but have also options on a few older GEs, SEs or Sweet 16s. Thanks in advance for sharing your thoughts on the topic. Cheers.
tulk1 Posted October 14, 2009 Posted October 14, 2009 Hi all, and thanks for providing a great forum. My name is Florin, and all things working according to plan, I will call myself a Heritage Owner soon. In searching for my perfect archtop, I happened upon a reputable dealer (non-Heritage) who has a few in stock, but warned me that approximately one in three jazz Heritage archtops that go through his hands have a lower neck upcurl that required removing the last 8-10 frets and planing the board and re-fretting. I do trust this dealer, but this info seems inconsistent with what I have been able to read on the HOC forum and elsewhere. It could also be that the owners of such instruments would be more likely to get rid of them, hence the high incidence of pre-owned curvy necks in his shop. Any thoughts on neck stability in the long run? I am looking at a 2008 GE, but have also options on a few older GEs, SEs or Sweet 16s. Thanks in advance for sharing your thoughts on the topic. Cheers. That seems weird. I've owned 5 Heritages and none of them have/had this problem. Albeit, none of the full Hollowbodies. Oh, and welcome to the club.
yoslate Posted October 14, 2009 Posted October 14, 2009 Welcome. Florin! You should generate a fair bit of chatter with this thread. Not really sure what you want here, but I would assume you're looking for confirmation or denial of the fretboard condition you identified in the unnamed non-Heritage dealer's experience. And I'm not at all sure I know what you mean by "lower neck upcurl." Are you talking about fretboard separation or warping at the heel, where the neck joins the body? And "one in three" (How many Heritages has this shop had experience with)??? There are more than a few archtop owners regularly checking in here, so you should get a reasonable "sample group." There have been some quality control issues at Heritage in the not-so-distant past. That and their largely successful attempts to rectify those issues have been well chronicled on the HOC. I have a custom ordered Super Eagle, built in '08. It is nearly perfect in every way...a magnificent instrument, which has been played by several members of the HOC. I look forward to seeing the posts on this thread, and I hope it all leads you to one of their magnificent big boxes! Good luck!
Steiner Posted October 14, 2009 Posted October 14, 2009 Greetings Florin. 5 Heritage hollowbodies + 1 acoustic here; no problem!
big bob Posted October 14, 2009 Posted October 14, 2009 have a hollow body, an acoustic, a simi-hollow, and two solid body heritages and no problems here
pegleg32 Posted October 14, 2009 Posted October 14, 2009 Welcome Florin!! Your dealer is either nuts or greatly exaggerating. I suspect he is using the old salesmans tool of running down one item in order to sell something else that he wants to sell. On the other hand, there is a very slim possibility that he found himself in the middle of some statistical anomaly. There are one huge bunch of Heritages owned by the members of this website, and if there were a problem with Heritages, these folks would scream to high heaven. They are very loyal to Heritage, because Heritage is loyal to them. Heritage isn't some huge corporation that doesn't care about it's product once it has gone out the door, nor does it accept some reasonable percentage of below acceptable guitars going out the door to be normal business. The only manufacturing defects that I have ever heard of on this website, have generally ended with a very satisfied Heritage owner singing the praises of the Heritage company making it right by either fixing it, or replacing it. I have personally owned 3 Heritages and I kick myself for not owning more.
Florin Posted October 14, 2009 Author Posted October 14, 2009 Thanks for the warm welcome, all. This place is great, it's starting to feel like home. I have been browsing this forum for some time, and if the level of craftsmanship of the Heritage product is proportional to the feeling of involvement and commitment of the HOC bunch, then I have nothing to worry about. As for purchasing a Heritage, my mind was made up long ago. I just needed to run that dealer comment by you guys, as it did not make much sense to me. Again, in the proper perspective, maybe some statistical anomaly did occur. Out of courtesy, I will keep that dealer unnamed, but he IS very well known in jazz circles, and provides a good product and sound advice for other brands. I believe that the upcurl he mentioned is bow beyond the regular truss rod adjustment margins, as the neck joins the body. And yes, 1 in 3 is HUGE. But I realize that the sampling rate needs to be substantially higher for this to be anywhere significant. Well, I will keep reading your comments, but more as a purchase reinforcement than anything else. Thanks for your help.
tulk1 Posted October 14, 2009 Posted October 14, 2009 Well, I will keep reading your comments, but more as a purchase reinforcement than anything else. We're very good at purchase reinforcement.
big bob Posted October 14, 2009 Posted October 14, 2009 One thing to watch out for with heritage is cracked pickup mounting rings (probably 1 in 3) and not so great end pin jacks. Oh and a sick desire to keep buying more and more.. and be weary of this website, it's like the Hotel California, you can log out any time you like, but you can never leave! good luck in your quest..
Thundersteel Posted October 14, 2009 Posted October 14, 2009 I've had two H575s, two H555s, and several H150s--none of them have had that problem! Oh--WELCOME!
RJLII Posted October 14, 2009 Posted October 14, 2009 Florin, I think what this guy is referring to is commomly called "neck hump". It can occur sometimes on guitars that have the fingerboard extension on the bridge side of the neck/body joint attached to the guitar top. This would include both arch tops and flat tops. The phenomenon occurs if/when the guitar top moves around due to humidity changes or when the neck is weak due to a poor design. The Dan Erlewine Guitar Repair Guide covers this in some detail. Discount store guitars intended for children often have this issue. Truss rod adjustments don't have any effect on the portion of the fingerboard the bridge side of the neck/body joint, so most hollow guitars will have the fret level "fall away" slightly or get a little lower there relative to the rest of the neck just in case the top of the guitar swells. Some makers choose to cantilever the fingerboard out over the top to take top swell out of the equation. All that said, I've owned my 1994 Heritage H-550 for over 10 years and have no problems. I recently changed the setup to use a different bridge and heavier flatwound strings rather than the lighter roundwound set I historically used. I asked the Luthier to level the frets when he performed the work to assure low, buzz free action. While some minor leveling was done to the fret tops in the upper registers, this is nothing unusual for a 15 year old instrument. I might suggest that you email Heritage directly to get their opinion. They're a decent bunch of folks with decades of experience and will more likely than not respond back to you. - Rob
111518 Posted October 14, 2009 Posted October 14, 2009 RJLII has it, I think. This can be a problem with any guitar that has a fretboard extension. The (Kalamazoo made) Gibson Super 400 that I once owned had to go through exactly the treatment Florin describes --fingerboard plane and refret-- to address this problem, and it can be a particular problem on solid wood archtops, where the body just moves differently than the neck over time, AND you have the expectation of being able to play up the neck. All that said, I have not seen this problem on my 550 or my Eagle Classic, and, although I certainly wouldn't dismiss the possibility that it could happen on a Heritage, it hasn't been reported in the time I've been hanging here. This is something to check on ANY setneck guitar that you buy. If you sight, or place a straightedge, along the edge of the fingerboard, and find an irregularity (hump or dip) in the area where the neck joins the body, you are not going to be able to fix it with a truss rod adjustment. (again, as RJLII points out.)
FredZepp Posted October 14, 2009 Posted October 14, 2009 I have 5 Heritage guitars, but only one hollowbody(that I just recently picked up), But no issues of any sort with neck . Haven't heard of any either, which seems like there should be one or two, just from the odds... Get yourself one of the guitars that you mentioned and you will be a Heritage convert forever. (and will find yourself looking forward to the "next one") No doubt... finest quality.
rjsanders Posted October 14, 2009 Posted October 14, 2009 howdy & welcome, Florin. i've had no probs with Millennium guitars (two) of this nature. i've also talked to two Heritage dealers in this are about QA probs over time with guitars they've received and this problem was not among flaws mentioned (which were rare)
High Flying Bird Posted October 14, 2009 Posted October 14, 2009 ....... one in three jazz Heritage archtops that go through his hands have a lower neck upcurl that required removing the last 8-10 frets and planing the board and re-fretting. This is a new one here........ and that's saying something. Welcome Florin.
Kuz Posted October 15, 2009 Posted October 15, 2009 Florin, I own 7 Heritages (have had as many as 10). NEVER an issue. NEVER. READ .... NEVER!
FredZepp Posted October 15, 2009 Posted October 15, 2009 ..So this Chevy dealer starts telling me about Fords and all, Then the Cadillac dealer explains why I shouldn't buy a german car, the Sealy mattress dealer explains why I shouldn't mess with Serta mattresses, The local window company tells me the other brand just can't compare, the carpet dealer says that carpet at the other place might look the same..but really it's not, the cable company warns me about the problems with satelite tv, the auto repair guy says not everyone uses the quality of parts that he does, the home security company explains how they can protect me better, the home gutter company tells me why I should invest in their better quality vs. the competitor, the garage builder explains how the other guys aren't nearly as good, the ....well you get the point.. It's just business .... right?
Florin Posted October 15, 2009 Author Posted October 15, 2009 ...the home gutter company tells me why I should invest in their better quality vs. the competitor, the garage builder explains how the other guys aren't nearly as good, the ....well you get the point.. It's just business .... right? Funny thing is, I believe none of the members on this forum are die-hard marketing brand consumers. If we were, we'd all be playing Gs. I came across Heritage while looking for an older G, and locating the various plants having made the legends of yesteryear. Then I found Kalamazoo, and found out that they were still operational. Bingo! The fact that the headstock isn't the "open book" type makes no difference to me. I understand that for some dealers, regardless of the business they're in, it is easier to advertise brands that they have some knowledge of, but bringing down the other guys hardly seems a sound business strategy nowadays. I know I don't do it in my business. On a more philosophical note, it is difficult to tell malicious from misinformed behavior. So I always give the benefit of the doubt . Judging from all your answers, I should start making room for yet another guitar. Gotta buy some flowers this afternoon...THAT will be a long discussion.
FredZepp Posted October 15, 2009 Posted October 15, 2009 So I always give the benefit of the doubt Agreed... The same is true of my examples. Sometimes a comparison with a competitor is valid and helpful. It just seemed an odd thing to suggest about our beloved Heritage , that there is some coverup of a common problem... I just love these guitars...!!
rjsanders Posted October 15, 2009 Posted October 15, 2009 Funny thing is, I believe none of the members on this forum are die-hard marketing brand consumers. ... i've always (so far) thought that gibbies should be cheaper (less costly) than Heritages but for 2 factors: marketing costs and Gibson's mad penchant for (often bizarre) acquisitions. i mean, they're huge in volume, computerized & all that jazz, right? anyway,...enjoy the posies. it'll be fun following along as you get yer first H-brand
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