blueox Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 Here's another angle on custom orders. After a 2008 factory tour, I briefly wrote out and submitted to Ren a few ideas I had on paper. I also some time later gave a similar description to a nearby Heritage dealer. I heard nothing official from either party until I bumped into Ren at a big box store, and he said that they couldn't do it. Later on, I mentioned my proposal to the dealer, and he said he had never submitted it to Heritage. I don't really mind that Heritage has certain set standards and could not do this type of guitar. The guitars they do make are of the highest quality. I eventually bought a new H-150CMU off the shelf of another dealer and am having a ball in the hall with it, as you all can understand. I am a little put off by the way this was handled, but in the end I have no qualms about Heritage ultimately doing what is the best for the company. Oh . . . my ideas for a custom guitar? I wanted an H-535 body with an H-357 neck (6-in line head), pick guard, stop tail piece, just one tone control, one volume control, each with push-pull coil taps. That's it. I know some of the H-170s have had coil taps, Heritage used to make guitars with six-in-line headstocks, and on a tour this summer, I happened to notice a couple of six-in-line necks hanging from a hook. We all know that the Heritage skilled workers could make this guitar, but I understand that at this point they evidentally do not want to create confusion at the headstock. Not a problem. I present this to show that there are limits to what can be made in a custom order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tulk1 Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 I think the caveat is they will do what they can within the confines and constructs of a certain model. In my last custom order I requested a certain type of application for the top wood. Answer: no can do because the type of guitar can't handle that. So, yeah, there are limits. But when you ask for inlays, pickups, colors (within reason), overlays, tuners, tailpieces, bridges, things like of that nature ... they'll mod the cr*p out of that for you. Or ... customize the cr*p out it for you, I should say. There are, however, some build techniques that just don't flow over into other models. Which we've both found out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big bob Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 I think the caveat is they will do what they can within the confines and constructs of a certain model. In my last custom order I requested a certain type of application for the top wood. Answer: no can do because the type of guitar can't handle that. So, yeah, there are limits. But when you ask for inlays, pickups, colors (within reason), overlays, tuners, tailpieces, bridges, things like of that nature ... they'll mod the cr*p out of that for you. Or ... customize the cr*p out it for you, I should say. There are, however, some build techniques that just don't flow over into other models. Which we've both found out. There are also some things that they cannot do by law because of the Gibbon lawsuit.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tulk1 Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 There are also some things that they cannot do by law because of the Gibbon lawsuit.. What would those be? Anyone know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FredZepp Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 What would those be? Anyone know? I would guess that there are some specific no-no's. But also a lot of grey area issues that must be tread upon carefully. a question of the degree of encroachment. A group of issues that bring with them a possiblity of liability or litigation.... Many companies experiment with these boundaries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big bob Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 What would those be? Anyone know? things like the firebird shape headstock, or the tummy cut on a 150. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pro-fusion Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 The Firebird-style headstock is probably what killed you on this one. Headstocks are the most dangerous area for a guitar maker in terms of legal issues. G-word has done semi-hollows with inline headstocks before, so I strongly doubt it's a structural issue (can't imagine why it would be). You'd just have to have a non-infringing headstock design for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuz Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 Believe it or not, they aren't supposed to install the Gibby pickguards out of the factory. Even if you buy it, show up at the factory. You need to kind of turn your back and shazam, it's mysteriously on there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SofaPlayer Posted October 24, 2009 Share Posted October 24, 2009 I'm probably missing something. Why does nobody fully write the G word? Anyway, the G lawsuit of course adds a few limits but apart from legal issues or technical problems, there are things I'm sure they wouldn't do. A H535 with the eagle headstock inlay for example. I'm not even sure if they are willing to change the Groove Master inlays, because it is a signature model. If they don't, I can perfectly understand it. I hope they never sell their pride. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueox Posted October 24, 2009 Author Share Posted October 24, 2009 Mention is made here of "the Gibson lawsuit". Was there ever any such lawsuit brought against Heritage? It would be interesting to see a book just about headstocks and their development. Early in the solid body guitar development, Bigsby came out with the 6-in-line headstock, then Fender ran with it. After a while it seemed that most everyone could use the 6-in-line whether Epiphone, Hagstrom, Kramer, G&L, Carvin, Parker, Reverend, etc. Gibson used a 6-in-line on their Firebird, Trini Lopez, even a Les Paul version ('84?), 1980s Futura, Vegas, among others. Heritage made their Firebird version, the H-357, with a 6-in-line headstock, but is no longer made, but could be made again, one would think, if the demand was there. We know that Heritage guitars are not clones of Gibson instruments. While they are carrying on the Gibson legacy in the original Gibson Kalamazoo plant with ex-Gibson skilled crafts people guiding their future, Heritage has to stand up for its own name. I don't see how Heritage would be subject to any lawsuits. One would think lawsuits could be filed for cloning, but not for similarities. But litigation is often mysterious. Because of a lawsuit, Elderly Instruments, for instance, has been barred from selling new Gibsons for several years because of something they did, and they are not even a manufacturer, just a dealer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuz Posted October 24, 2009 Share Posted October 24, 2009 I am absolutely certain that an agreement was made (I don't know if an actual lawsuit happened) that they had to change the headstock,the shape of the trussrod cover, and pickguard). Ren, told me that beside that Gibson wrote them off as a small company that wouldn't have any impact, yet alone survive, so they didn't force them to change much else (next to the headstock, trussrod cover, and oh yea the pickguard). Actually come to think of it, I don't know if they were forced to change the pickguard or if Heritage wanted to inorder to get a new identity. But I am certain on the headstock & trussrod. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big bob Posted October 24, 2009 Share Posted October 24, 2009 horn shape on the 150, and belly cut on the 150's and 140's .. the i50 I traded for with Brent was one of the last body's to use the gibson shape horn and belly cut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthpawGuy Posted October 24, 2009 Share Posted October 24, 2009 Yeah baby !!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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