Loaded Question

[conorb]

So I'm getting really close to pulling the trigger on a Heritage H150. There are several available so at this point it's a combination of price and finish.

 

The ones I'm considering a new.

 

Now along pops up a couple of VOS LP's - a R8 and a R0. Both plaintops and I'm totally all over the R0. It speaks to me.

 

Additionally given the recent threads regarding resale/markets/pricing and what not I've got ask.

 

Which one would you rather have? The brand new (well, in the shop/hanging on the wall for the past 2 years new) Heritage or the single-owner Custom Shop VOS LP?

 

The LP is slightly more money, but I think in terms of resale it might be a better "value." However that's defined.

 

So, like I said - it's a loaded question and I understand that the folks here have a 'thang' for Heritage.

 

Still, I'm quite interested in your general thoughts.

 

Thanks,

 

conorb

[big bob]

what is vos, made in kalamazoo?

[FredZepp]

I like them both, but even though the Gibbys are good re-issues... the Heritage is the real thing. For less.

Your new Heritage could be custom ordered , hand-made in Kalamazoo to your specs. For less than the used Gibby.

If you're worried about resale.. you could consider a used Heritage...

but everybody that has a Heritage custom made, raves about it...

[conorb]

what is vos, made in kalamazoo?

 

VOS is Vintage Original Spec. It's a Gibby Custom Shop recreation of the LP's from the late 50's and 1960. The reissue 1960 (R0) has a thinner neck than say a reissue 1958 (R8) and possibly different finishes. There may be other more subtle difference but I don't know enough about them to really say. (I'm no expert.)

 

I like them both, but even though the Gibbys are good re-issues... the Heritage is the real thing. For less.

Your new Heritage could be custom ordered , hand-made in Kalamazoo to your specs. For less than the used Gibby.

If you're worried about resale.. you could consider a used Heritage...

but everybody that has a Heritage custom made, raves about it...

 

That's a really good point. Since I've never had a LP/LP style guitar I would probably go with new dealer stock for now as I really don't know what my personal 'specs' would be but from a future point-of-view that's a great idea. Thanks!

 

conorb

[Jazzpunk]

Additionally given the recent threads regarding resale/markets/pricing and what not I've got ask.

 

It's important to keep these discussions in context. A new Gibson is going to lose just as much value on the used market. It may or may not be more valuable in 20 years but I wouldn't really let that sway your decision!

 

Is there anyway you can try out both guitars before buying? That's really the only way you'll know for sure which guitar is the one for you.

[zookroo1]

If you found a guitar that speaks to you, is a good deal and you can afford it then sounds like a good choice. As long as you find one that works for you you'll be happy. Like Fred said though, the Heritage will most likely bring you more guitar for your money... Keep us posted on your decision!

[Dick Seacup]

I think the answer to the question you ask has always been, "Buy the one that speaks to you, regardless of what is on the headstock." The only caveat that I can think of to that is, "Be aware that your perception of what speaks to you may be skewed by what is on the headstock."

[tulk1]

I think the answer to the question you ask has always been, "Buy the one that speaks to you, regardless of what is on the headstock." The only caveat that I can think of to that is, "Be aware that your perception of what speaks to you may be skewed by what is on the headstock."

 

That is almost as profound as words from the guy that created our little HOC Universe. Do you know him?

 

I'm going to jump in the category that says you've got to get what the heart desires. If it's a Gib guitar with the LP stamp on it, so be it. If it turns out to be the H guitar, then even better. And just to reitterate what may not have been made clear - we won't ostracize you for buying the VOS. Hey, Squawken bought a white whale Epi, and we still talk to him.

[Kuz]

Not trying to be an idiot, but....

 

DO you originality or machine made?

 

Do you want a Reissue or an Original made at the same plant where the originals were made, made by the same tools the originals were made?

 

Finally if you want a Gibby, the Les Paul Forum will be more than happy to enable you over there. There is a reason why we are the HERITAGE owners club!

 

I agree with the above, buy the guitar that speaks to you. BUT please my pet peeve is cost! It's as if people are saying you will get a slightly inferior product but it cost less! That is BULLSH*T! Heritage guitars are as good (I ALWAYS feel BETTER THAN GIBBY) at ANY cost!

[pegleg32]

I own a Gibby LP Standard and I love it, but it is not perfect. I own a Heritage H150 and I love it, but it is not perfect. If I had to choose between them it would be difficult, but I would go with the 150. One difference for me is that everybody has a LP and very few own a 150. I really identify with the folks that make Heritages because they have maintained the original art and craft of guitar making. I also identify with the owners of Heritages because they don't blindly follow the crowd that believes the headstock hype. But the bottom line is that, when everythings is said and done, my left hand feels better on the 150. For me, it is that simple. So the best advice has already been given in a previous post - play it, and then decide.

[Thundersteel]

Now along pops up a couple of VOS LP's - a R8 and a R0. Both plaintops and I'm totally all over the R0. It speaks to me.

 

I think you answered your own question.

[Spectrum13]

C....

 

I will attempt to unload....

 

The VOS is a one owner and thus, depreciated from the higher retail cost and most likely broken in with a "slim" neck which you like.

 

The two year old "new" Heritage is a little less money, most likely has a 59 neck and will depreciate in value and I assume, did not speak to you.

 

As long as you have had the chance to play an acceptable number of Les Paul style guitars to feel comfortable with your ability to know what you like, and it's down to these two, no contest.

 

Because you are considering Heritage, you are looking beyond the headstock.

If you have bonded, the real deal, original factory, handmade, low production numbers, seasoned woods, original tooling, construction methods and workers vs G using the VOS designation when the reality of it's actual production methods would be a state of the art high volume, reproduction in every aspect. All that will be trumped if you have played and perfered the R0. At HOC we value the old world methods but most of know G can make some great Les Pauls.

[FredZepp]

Or if you are buying used...... buy 2 Heritage guitars and start a collection of the finest.....

[smurph1]

As for me, I really like the "rebel" aspect of Heritage guitars..Many people make fun of them, call the "knockoffs" and so forth..But I don't care..I've owned many different Gibby's and none of them hold a candle to my almost 25 year old 140..It has the vintage vibe I love, and most importantly that full rich humbucker tone, that most Gibson owners are seeking..But i agree that if the Gbrand speaks to you, go for it..You can always trade it for a H-150 later..

[conorb]

Well, I did say it was a loaded question. I know who's house I'm in.

 

A lot of really good responses - thanks.

 

In terms of "what speaks to me" - I've been through this with watches and getting something without trying it on and then finding out that I really didn't want it that bad after all. Also given my general lack of availability to either guitar I'm judging them (perhaps unfairly) on a purely aesthetic/visceral response.

 

Inherently my problem is one of access. I've played one Heritage h-150 and a couple of LP's. Both of the LP's were at a local (hour away) Guitar Center as they are the only dealer within reasonable driving distance. My intention was to try a 50's style neck and a 60's style neck and both will work for me but I did (slightly) prefer the 60's style neck. For some folks I notice a lot of this type of neck versus that type of neck discussions and I really don't play well enough to take advantage of (or know of the disadvantages) of either style.

 

I really like the h-150 that I played and I definitely "get it" in terms of small numbers, hand made, good woods, and looking beyond the headstock. My other guitars are Hamers - so I've already been down that road.

 

Additionally, I make custom steel-lugged bicycles myself and I totally understand the idea of craftsmanship and love to produce a product that will only be appreciated by a very small group of people.

 

 

"Be aware that your perception of what speaks to you may be skewed by what is on the headstock."

 

Is a great thought.

 

I guess I'm just rambling now so I'll stop.

 

conorb

[Gitfiddler]

Heritage and Gibson guitars have never had a problem getting along in the same household. Many of us own both brands and a few others.

 

When it comes to purchasing a high dollar, luxury item such as a guitar, it should never be made based on other people's opinions, even if fact based. It's your money and if resale enters the picture, you've already complicated a relatively simple decision. Every guitar I've ever purchased and kept, spoke to me (whatever that means). The ones that I did not bond with for whatever reason, are all gone.

 

Let us know which one you decide on...and YOUR reasons why you made that choice. That would be an interesting follow up thread to read.

[Spectrum13]

Additionally, I make custom steel-lugged bicycles myself and I totally understand the idea of craftsmanship and love to produce a product that will only be appreciated by a very small group of people.

 

 

 

 

Steel is real!

 

How do you keep your nails so clean?

[bruno]

Both plaintops and I'm totally all over the R0. It speaks to me.

 

 

It sounds like you already made your decision.

[FredZepp]

Come on .... find yourself one of those special Heritage guitars... and become one of the few..that know..

.

[pegleg32]

Hmmmm, I see you are, and respect, people who are craftsmen and artists. Maybe that should guide you. But whatever you decide, please feel free to hang around, cause you will eventually come to own a Heritage, no doubt in my mind.

[FredZepp]

Or maybe some handmade that is ... a little ...less flamey.......

[pro-fusion]

Just to clarify, have you played all three guitars in question? If so, and the R0 speaks to you as a player (not a looker), then that's the one. The price difference, the name on the headstock, all that stuff is secondary if this is an instrument you intend to use and enjoy for many years. Don't settle, but don't buy based on looks or reputation etc. After a few weeks that stuff won't matter anymore. But a great player/tone monster is something to keep forever.

 

All the VOS Gibbys I've played have been very nice guitars, albeit more than I would want to spend even for a used instrument. My Heritage H-157 is my perfect Les Paul, and I don't even really look at the Gibbys in the stores anymore, but that's just me.

[mark555]

If you were to play each guitar blindfolded, not knowing what brand you were playing, which would you go for? I have played Japanese Tokai les pauls that equal the standard production range G have, they cost almost £1000 less yet if you find a really good one, there is not a £1000 diffference, they are still mahogany body, neck and rosewood type fretboards with a maple or sycamore cap. sometimes it's looking beyond the brand.

[nat120]

I thought I would chime in as I own both Gibson and Heritage. I have owed many Gibson's over the years and most did not have very good playability throughout the neck. The best one I owed was a custom shop and it did play very well but not as good is my H-157. On the H-157 the notes play out excellent from the first fret to the last. I was blown away by how well I could solo on this guitar. The neck is more of a 60's style but just a little bigger. I currently own a Gibson Les Paul Standard that sounds great for rythem and it has been with me for 10 years. It does not solo near as well as my Heritage. The notes do not sing out as well, it is very noticable when playing both guitars back to back. It took me about 10 Les Pauls to get one that plays pretty well. Only two out of eight were worth a shit. I own two H-157 and they both play excellent from rythem to lead which shows how the quality control and build quality. You may get a flaw in the finish every once in a while from Heritage but the guitar it self always play excellent. This is what you would expect from getting a hand made instrument. The only other thing I gave heard a few people complain about is have to get a pro fret job, besides that you always get a quality instrument. If resale is a major concern the Gibson will gain more worth in the long run. I paid $1,200 cash 10 years ago used for mine and it is worth about $1,750 not so that is a good return, but since I have bought two Heritage's I have not play my Gibby. Once you pick up and play a Heritage for an hour after owning Gibson's your whole life the headstock difference means nothing. You can feel the quality when you play, and it make playing a breeze. For me playabilty is everything as I play out every weekend, things like a small flaw finish is nothing I care about because I get scatches on one of my Heritage from all of the playing. I do have one in show room quality that stays at home. You can get an H-157 which is equal in quality to a Gibson Custom for the same price you can get a Gibson Studio (and most of them are junk) so I am done buying Gibson's at this point but I will definately be holding on to my Standard due to it sound amazing for rythem recording and I have a lot of history with that guitar.