cosmikdebriis Posted February 11, 2008 Posted February 11, 2008 Hi... I'm looking for a 150 and trawling through eBay listings turned up a H150 LW. As I understand it the lightweight has a "chambered" top. Some of you may know I'm a dealer in vintage Greco (Japanese) guitars and they too produced a guitar with a Chambered body. Thing is, that Greco was a cheaper model in the range and the chamber was made by applying a formed layer of "laminated" (Ok it was plywood) wood on top of the solid mahogany body. So, I just wondered what the Heritage method is/was? For those of you who want a look at the guitar in question, it is item No: 190197849460 Or... http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Heritage-H150-LW-USA...1QQcmdZViewItem It's a bit too much money for my liking though I like the colour (That's color to you guys over the pond) and the Duncans.
tulk1 Posted February 11, 2008 Posted February 11, 2008 You're aware that the big G has been chambering, etc., the LP line for many years, right? It's a systematic removal of the wood from certain areas of the body which they feel does not affect the tone. Pretty sure our guys would be doing something similar. Jay has two of the 150LWs in stock right now. And to tell the truth, I wish my 157 was an LW. Not sure of the pattern or the method used but I'm all for it.
Thundersteel Posted February 12, 2008 Posted February 12, 2008 I own one. AFAIK, they route out the mahogany body, then they put the maple top on. It has a nice, woody tone to it, similar to the Guild Bluesbirds. And now, to avoid the :uwp:, here is a pic! H150Full.JPG H150Full.JPG_thumb
yoslate Posted February 12, 2008 Posted February 12, 2008 Played with a guy last night who was using a chambered LP. He's a fine player, has dozens of guitars, and rarely plays the same instrument out twice consecutively; he always has superb tone. This is about the fourth time in a row I've seen him with that stick. Pedals and a decent amp notwithstanding. I could tell that guitar sounded very, very nice. Woody would be a very appropriate adjective. His LP had Duncan '57 Classics, and the guitar produced a very warm neck p'up tone, but he was always in the middle position. He could get it to bite as well, though. I add this post only because there had been a bit of chatter about the chambered Paul type guitars recently, mostly regarding their weight. I think he said his was around seven-and-a-half pounds. I assume the Parsons Street boys would do about the same with their chambered 150. Just here to say the concept seems to work well sonically. Cosmik: the eBay 150LW you cite is a nice looking piece, That's probably a dark almondburst finish, if you're not aware of the Heritage palette.
cosmikdebriis Posted February 12, 2008 Author Posted February 12, 2008 Thanks guys... I like the guitar, but not the price... Double it for dollars and a starting price of $1500 is a bit high Oh well... :'( I've got a guitar (Minarik) on it's way over from the USA. It's sat in customs "Awaiting customs charges". When I work out how much they're going to rip me off I'll consider the possibility of getting a Heritage over from the US. There's far more choice and a lot less money ;D Of course not everyone will export so maybe... That's where one of you guys might be able to help
peerless Posted February 12, 2008 Posted February 12, 2008 The weight removal methods employed by Gibson is not the same as chambering. Gibson simply drills weight relief holes in areas of the body that hopefully will not affect the tone. THey do this, obviously to bring the weight down. The weight of the LP has increased through the years due to the poorer quality of mahogany Gibson uses. Some of this may be due to scarcity or availability of the wood but it mostly has to do with cutting production cost. For instance, 59 LP's did not weigh as much as modern LP's. The mahogany used was older, lighter and more resonant. Even Heritage 150's are on average lighter than Gibson LPs which would be really heavy if not for the weight reduction holes. This all has to do with differences in wood quality between the two companies. Heritage uses much higher quality mahogany than Gibson and Heritage does not need to drill weight relief holes. Chambering is cutting spaces in the guitar to make it more resonant and to shape the tone. Maker the guitar lighter is a side effect. Gibson's weight relief holes are not meant to change the tone. Heritage chambers the instrument with it's tone on mind. You can go to Warmoth.com and read all about chambered guitar bodies. I think it can become a big thing in the future as lutheirs figure out the science behind chambering. For instance, as wood ages and becomes more pores(sp?) as tiny tiny chambers develop as the wood dries. This is basicaly behind the aging of a guitar and why aged guitars sound better. Theorhetically, chambering offeres a lutheir a means of taking this process into his own hands and making young wood sound like old wood or at least shaping the tone of a guitar body in lots of ways. For now, we are no where near this surgical in the science of guitar body chambering. The efforts of Warmoth and now Heritage are just the beginnings. Regarding the new Heritage chambered guitars, my question is this: Are they using the same quality mahogany? It would be possible to use cheaper Gibson grade mahogany since the guitar is going to be chambered. I have not had my hands on any of the chambered instruments from Heritage yet. Chambering can be used to enhance and shape the tone, and/or cut corners. Actually, I do think Gibby does a chambered line but please do not confuse this with the standard Gibson practice of drilling weight relief holes. Jimmy Page recently had his infamous LP chambered. Mainly for weight reduction but I know the tone of that guitar was accounted for. I would like to learn more about who did that work. peerless www.peerlesstone.com
Thundersteel Posted February 12, 2008 Posted February 12, 2008 Regarding the new Heritage chambered guitars, my question is this: Are they using the same quality mahogany? I've always thought that they use Honduran mahogany. As far as the G!&^%ns, I believe the 2007 and newer standards are chambered. I don't see what the big deal is, but a lot of people over at the LPF are angry about it; I guess it's not built anymore "like they used to." Hence, The Heritage!
cosmikdebriis Posted February 12, 2008 Author Posted February 12, 2008 Well... Apart from Greco who's chambering was purely to save costs. I also own Minarik guitars. For those of you interested in the science of chambering, this guy has taken it to the extreme. His entire body shape is designed around what he calls the "Tone Tail" system. This "Tone Tail" offers an extra strip of wood on the side of the guitar where low frequencies require more surface area to resonate than the treble side. Combined with the custom tone chambered body, this traditional shape offers tone, balance, and beauty that lives up to its name. As I said I already own a Minarik "Goddess" and am just waiting for a "Lotus" to clear customs. My experience is this. The Minarik certainly has a resonance to it and is suprisingly loud without an amplifier. It also has plenty of sustain despite being fairly lightweight. I really like the Minariks, certainly a bit flashy for some tastes (Ok. a lot flashy) but very well made, albeit in Korea ??? Thing is, they don't seem to have any "Mojo" about them. That brings me back to hand made guitars, and, inevitably, Heritage Check out the blurb on the Minariks though... http://www.minarikguitars.com/products.gui...uitarcolorId=20 or there's a pretty good review on Youtube here... Oh, and just in case you're wondering. No I don't work for Minarik ;D
Mikenov Posted February 12, 2008 Posted February 12, 2008 Interesting. I actually asked about these about a month ago. I saw one on Craigslist and was wondering if someone had ever played one. They are deffinately a flashy guitar but the Goddess didn't look too bad. I could never play one of those flame jobs with a straight face. just to old to look right with one of those. BUT, my question was how do they manage to have their tops look like that. They really have beautiful looking wood on those guitars and I was curious how that managed that at their price point. I also wondered about the quality. That's when I found out where they were made. That being said, I have a korean Ibanez and for a low cost guitar it looks and plays awesome. Just doesn't sound as good as a H535. They seemed like a cut above your bulk korean guitar with some nice details . I would love to play one and see/hear what that tail piece does for the resonance/sound.
Gitfiddler Posted February 12, 2008 Posted February 12, 2008 Guys, it is my understanding that the Gibson does the following: LP Standards are weight relieved with 7-9 Swiss cheese inner holes in the mahogany (not considered chambered). LP Supreme is chambered for tone enhancement and weight relief, via a sandwitched inner mahogany core, specially routed for the electrical innards, with maple caps on the back and front. LP Elegant is weight relieved in a similar manner as the current USA Standards. Historic C9's, also informally called the Cloud Nine series are chambered mahogany for better tone and less weight. CS-336/356 and Johnny A. Signature models are all carved mahogany back/sides with a solid maple cap. A unique form of sonic chambering Gibson calls 'tonally carved' guitars. (These are my personal favorites of all current Gibson products) Some day I'd like to do a comparison of Heritage's LW 150's to one or all of the Gibson models above. Now that would be a fun test drive!
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