H-170CM

[jcaster]

Some advice would be greatly appreciated. I bought an H-170CM new in 1985, red curly maple top, and I've owned and played it infrequently ever since. It's in like new condition. Recently, especially after comparing it to my PRS 513 and a friend's Les Paul Standard with Burstbuckers, it sounds a bit "thin" to me. Probably just my perception, and the fact that my ears have no doubt lost some of the normal audible spectrum. I believe the pickups are probably not Gibson PAFs, and I would like this guitar to sound a bit less thin, a bit warmer, but not necessarily darker in tone. The neck on this model is somewhat thinner than most Les Pauls, and I wonder if that affects the sound as well. At any rate I would like to change out the humbuckers for something better. My question: what pickups have others used in 140s, 150, or 170s that have given desirable results? Cost is not an object. Also: would changing the tone or volume pots make a difference? TIA. Jeff

[lb61906]

I'd go with Seymore Duncan 59s or Lollar Imperials. Very nice, warm vintage tone!

[High Flying Bird]

Duncan Seth Lovers are nice too. Heritage HRW pups are great but you have to send the guitar to the factory for that option.

[rjsanders]

howdy, jeff,

 

i'd love to have a nice 170, wouldn't expect it to sound like a Les Paul, maybe closer to an SG (neck profile, rim thickness). have had good experiences with Seths and HRWs. how'bout something a little more radical like a P90/humbucker-format thing, like a Seymour Phat Cat or other? talk to your favorite luthier/tech about the effect of different pots & capacitors for that particular guitar and pickups...(everything makes a difference)

[jcaster]

Thanks, RJ. After talking with some other gigging musicians--who like my 170 just as it is, incidentally--I've learned that everything does make a difference. Nothing is simple in the pursuit of tone. SD 59s would be an economical alternative, and some of your other suggestions have real appeal, especially after listening to sound files on the SD website. As for the pots, I've been told a wide variety of opinions from an equally wide variety of individuals who all seem to have different preferences. One theme seems to come through, however, that going to a 500k or 1 meg volume pot would probably make even the stock humbuckers sound better. I may experiment a bit before throwing out what I believe are stock Schaller pickups, but I suspect they will be history.

 

Thanks to you other guys for the suggestions as well.

[jcaster]

Update: installed DiMarzio PAF Pro (neck) and FRED (bridge). Finally threw up hands and decided to try a variety of things. Tried Duncan P-Rails: okay, but thin, hollow sound with the single coils--not pretty. I have no idea why. Tried Phat Cats--great sounding pickup, but dealing with the 60 Hz. hum is a problem at lower club level volumes. At least I can deal with it with my Strat's pups in the 2 and 4 positions on the 5-pos. switch. Only way to neutralize it is to wire them in series and use both pickups constantly--not a great option. The DiMarzios sound wonderful for just about everything I do, but they are relatively new and the final jury is still out. The FRED gives some interesting harmonics when lightly overdriven, and a sweet growl heavily distorted. The PAF Pro is fairly bright but still warm, and gives a nice upper midrange growl overdriven. A great rythm pickup without being boomy or muddy. Amp is a Mesa Stilleto Deuce II with a 2x12 Recto cab, by the way.

 

Anyone else use these DiMarzios?

[brentrocks]

Welcome!! The H 170 is a great guitar!!!

 

[bolero]

jcaster, what type of sounds are you after? would help get you in the ballpark

[mark555]

My 2 cents worth. I play a 555 which orriginally had Schallers in. I personally could not get along with the schallers at all. I replaced them with Seymour Duncan 59's and I get a really good solid tone. I can only tell you what my ears tell me. Again, on a personal level, I prefer Duncan's to Dimarzio's.

[SouthpawGuy]

Update: installed DiMarzio PAF Pro (neck) and FRED (bridge). Finally threw up hands and decided to try a variety of things. Tried Duncan P-Rails: okay, but thin, hollow sound with the single coils--not pretty. I have no idea why. Tried Phat Cats--great sounding pickup, but dealing with the 60 Hz. hum is a problem at lower club level volumes. At least I can deal with it with my Strat's pups in the 2 and 4 positions on the 5-pos. switch. Only way to neutralize it is to wire them in series and use both pickups constantly--not a great option. The DiMarzios sound wonderful for just about everything I do, but they are relatively new and the final jury is still out. The FRED gives some interesting harmonics when lightly overdriven, and a sweet growl heavily distorted. The PAF Pro is fairly bright but still warm, and gives a nice upper midrange growl overdriven. A great rythm pickup without being boomy or muddy. Amp is a Mesa Stilleto Deuce II with a 2x12 Recto cab, by the way.

 

Anyone else use these DiMarzios?

 

I have P-Rails in a 170 and a 535 and fwiw I also find the single coil rail tone in the 170 to be thin and a bit lifeless in comparison to the other sounds available. However in the 535 the same rail tone is very useable indeed, and the P-90 is also fatter. The semi hollow 535 seems to fatten up the tone quite a bit.

[jcaster]

Update on Dimarzio pickups. As mentioned earlier I replaced the stock Schallers with a Dimarzio PAF Pro in the neck and a Dimarzio Fred in the bridge. The combo has been everything I've wanted, and more.

 

The PAF Pro produces some decent jazz tones with the tone turned down, and does sweet blues solos with the tone up and just a bit of fuzz. It is a powerful pickup and needs to be a millimeter farther from the strings to avoid overdriving the amp when clean tones are desired. It's never muddy, even with warmer amps like a Dr. Z Maz 38 ('cut' turned down) or a Fender Blues Jr.

 

The Fred is awesome in the bridge position. It's a great rock/blues pickup with excellent harmonics and a growl to die for. At a recent gig several folks inquired as to what amp I was using to get such "kewl harmonics." The Mesa Stiletto is a great tool, but the Fred seems to make the difference, as even my PRS 513 doesn't do as well in the bridge humbucker mode. I love the 513, but my Heritage is now my #1 axe for all but Stratocaster-oriented stuff. I don't anticipate replacing these pickups unless something substantially better comes along. Boutique pickups may cost more, but it's doubtful they produce substantially better tone in order to justify the price.

 

A friend, who earlier pronounced my 170 as "thin" and "a lot like an old Carvin I once owned but got rid of . . .", now believes the guitar is one of the best he's played. I loaned it to him for a gig recently. He also plays a 513, an Eric Johnson Strat, and a Gibson Les Paul Standard from the mid-90s. He wanted to buy it (not gonna happen), but decided to sell his LP instead and attempt to find an older H-170 for himself. He's a pro musician, trained at the Musician's Institute, and gigs with three different bands currently. His praise is meaningful, IMO.

 

Thanks again for all the advice.

[mark555]

great news, but where are the pictures??!!