iim7v7im7 Posted December 4, 2009 Posted December 4, 2009 Hi, I just received my custom H535 via UPS today. Overall, a beautiful instrument and I will provide photos this weekend. Unfortunately, it is really not to playable at the moment. This will not come as a surprise to some of you. It's the nut. It is the worst nut I have ever seen in all of years playing. The string slot spacing is way off on the A and D strings. E to A = 9/32 A to D = 7/32 D to G = 11/32 G to B = 9/32 B to E = 9/32 Additionally, the slot depth and diameters are inadequate to smoothly guide the strings. The low E string is standing above the slot with only a small portion of its underside within the slot. I would expect better quality on a $300 Jay Turser or Fender Mexican guitar. When you make this type of mistake when making a guitar, you replace the nut in manufacture. If this fails in your manufacturing system, you also have an independent quality control function that requires the spacing and slot quality to be inspected. Lastly, I had hoped that my retailer would act as a final point of QC. They did not. Mr. Duerloo, Lamb and Moats should be ashamed to put their names on this level of quality, particularly since the rest of the instrument has been executed at such a high level. I will need to take the instrument, unplayed to a luthier and have it replaced for ~$100. I believe this probelem to be systemic in nature with Heritage Guitar. Making a good nut is NOT rocket science. I am posting this here because like them to see feed back from a person who owns 2 Heritage guitars(2000 Sweet 16 and 2009 H535). We don't grow on trees! I am sorry to be lecturing, but I hope that you can imagine my disappointment on a multi-thousand dollar custom instrument. I believe that you may have seen postings like this before, but I hope they are less and less in the future. Nothing that is wrong with this instrument cannot be remedied by a good luthier, but on a new instrument out the the Parsons Street Factory this should not be necessary. :-( Bob
pegleg32 Posted December 4, 2009 Posted December 4, 2009 That is disappointing Bob, you have my sympathy. I realize it is easy to fix, but what a bummer that you got it in that condition.
big bob Posted December 4, 2009 Posted December 4, 2009 my god some drunk fuc&er must have cut that nut.. no wait I don't remember cutting that nut, well maybe I did.. in all seriousness, that's a stinker. No one wants a new toy that needs to be fixed..
GuitArtMan Posted December 4, 2009 Posted December 4, 2009 This (and what happened with my custom orders) is what keeps me from custom ordering another Heritage. They're great guitars when you get all the kinks worked out, just wish they could do it at the factory.
FredZepp Posted December 4, 2009 Posted December 4, 2009 I can appreciate that it must be frustrating.... Sorry to hear about it.... I hope that your dealer can contact the factory with the pic and the measurements and work something out for all. This one should not have slipped through based on your description...
cod65 Posted December 5, 2009 Posted December 5, 2009 They're great guitars when you get all the kinks worked out, just wish they could do it at the factory. wow. that is clearly pathetic. someone should be fired. Also your 'middleman' ...... WTF? why bother going through someone at all? You would think the fees incurred to 'make this right' would not make a business cost-effective to Heritage or your dealer. The dealer could've/ should offer to put a good one on, or send you a rebate to have it done locally. Otherwise I would suggest you reveal their name here. Just my opine, but I've never understood why people feel compelled to say ' a party that shall remain nameless' I have a feeling you will get restitution by one of the two parties- but one has to ask: why does this happen ? its just money down the toilet somewhere.
barrymclark Posted December 5, 2009 Posted December 5, 2009 The ball was definitely dropped in a number of places on this one. This really bums me out to see. As mentioned, it never should have left the factory like this. I would think even an inexperienced person (even one who doesn't play guitar) could look at this and see a problem. The middle man.... even moreso unless it was just drop shipped from Heritage directly to you. I certainly hope you are going to let Heritage know what you got here.
111518 Posted December 5, 2009 Posted December 5, 2009 Bob: Boy, I read the post before I looked at the jpeg, so I wasn't unprepared, but still shocked when I saw the picture. You have to wonder if alcohol might in fact have been involved. How else do you explain that glaring a flaw shipping out on a very expensive instrument. No one of sound mind could string up and pack that guitar without recognizing a problem. You should not apologize in the least for your post. We can only hope that somehow the word gets through that people who care very much about the co. and the people there are shocked that this kind of shoddy workmanship can make it out the door and concerned about the message it sends to all dealers and customers.
Kuz Posted December 5, 2009 Posted December 5, 2009 Hi, I just received my custom H535 via UPS today. Overall, a beautiful instrument and I will provide photos this weekend. Unfortunately, it is really not to playable at the moment. This will not come as a surprise to some of you. It's the nut. It is the worst nut I have ever seen in all of years playing. The string slot spacing is way off on the A and D strings. E to A = 9/32 A to D = 7/32 D to G = 11/32 G to B = 9/32 B to E = 9/32 Additionally, the slot depth and diameters are inadequate to smoothly guide the strings. The low E string is standing above the slot with only a small portion of its underside within the slot. I would expect better quality on a $300 Jay Turser or Fender Mexican guitar. When you make this type of mistake when making a guitar, you replace the nut in manufacture. If this fails in your manufacturing system, you also have an independent quality control function that requires the spacing and slot quality to be inspected. Lastly, I had hoped that my retailer would act as a final point of QC. They did not. Mr. Duerloo, Lamb and Moats should be ashamed to put their names on this level of quality, particularly since the rest of the instrument has been executed at such a high level. I will need to take the instrument, unplayed to a luthier and have it replaced for ~$100. I believe this probelem to be systemic in nature with Heritage Guitar. Making a good nut is NOT rocket science. I am posting this here because like them to see feed back from a person who owns 2 Heritage guitars(2000 Sweet 16 and 2009 H535). We don't grow on trees! I am sorry to be lecturing, but I hope that you can imagine my disappointment on a multi-thousand dollar custom instrument. I believe that you may have seen postings like this before, but I hope they are less and less in the future. Nothing that is wrong with this instrument cannot be remedied by a good luthier, but on a new instrument out the the Parsons Street Factory this should not be necessary. :-( Bob I have never seen anything like that. Wow, pictures don't lie. Like others have said... 1. Call the factory and e-mail them pics of the nut. They would probably want you to send the guitar back to be fixed, but it wouldn't hurt to see if they would help pay (if not completely pay for the new set up). 2. What in the HELL was your dealer thinking sending that out. Your dealer should have fixed and/or set up the guitar. Sorry and I hope when it is fixed it will be your dream guitar.
Mikenov Posted December 5, 2009 Posted December 5, 2009 Not suprised. The only problem I ever had with any heritage I owned was the nut. Every one of them has been replaced. I have suggested people ASSUME this as part of the cost of their instrument but a custom made guitar? You would have to assume zero QC process for something like this or almost as bad, the person who did the final QC didn't realize there was a problem. Either way not good. I think if Heritage has one take away from this they need to really think about how they do final inspection of their instruments. I got that Alvarez acoustic which I believe is korean made but the final set up is done in St Louis. Man, that guitar sounds great, stays in tune, plays with pretty great action although it does have some uneven frets. Jst the effort made once it hit the states is a differentiator. Sorry to go off the track on this but what I am saying is final set up is the most important part and the biggest reason a guitar sits or moves once it hits the hangers.
iim7v7im7 Posted December 5, 2009 Author Posted December 5, 2009 Guys, Back from dinner and a bottle of wine. Thanks for your support. I will see what a Cannon SLR and a macro lense can do this weekend. Shame is a beautiful thing. As I said, the rest of the instrument is beautiful. It arrived at my dealer on November 19th and was shipped to me on Dec 1st. There was plenty of time for them to say, "Bob I am sorry but we need to send it back to the factory, its just not right". They did not. Nothing that is wrong cannot be fixed by a skilled luthier. I'll post some shots this weekend. I have no expectations of any help from Heritage or my dealer. I just hope this message inspires them to change because this is just unacceptable. The shot I posted was via my iPhone. Wait until you see what a Macro SLR can show. Best, Bob
Gitfiddler Posted December 5, 2009 Posted December 5, 2009 Venting here is helpful and informative, but the problem needs to be put back into the dealer's hands ASAP. Take more photos of the nut and send them to the dealer as well as to Vince Margol at Heritage. Ask them what they suggest you do under the circumstances. And be sure it includes a pre-paid UPS or FedEx label!!
Jazzpunk Posted December 5, 2009 Posted December 5, 2009 Nothing that is wrong cannot be fixed by a skilled luthier. I'll post some shots this weekend. I have no expectations of any help from Heritage or my dealer. I just hope this message inspires them to change because this is just unacceptable. The shot I posted was via my iPhone. Wait until you see what a Macro SLR can show. Best, Bob Bob, Thank you for your honesty in posting this. I went through a similar experience with my 575 and it really bummed me out! PLEASE contact both your dealer as well as Heritage and have them make this right for you. It is their responsibility to assume the costs for this not yours! In my situation, neither Wolfe not Heritage officially accepted responsibility for the nut but I will say that Wolfe manned up and paid for the replacement while Heritage simply stopped returning my e-mails (they never once returned a phone call). It sucks because I am always promoting Heritage on other sites and I personally felt let down. I'm sure they are all great guys but they need to know that customer satisfaction ends when the customer is satisfied and not simply when the guitar goes out the door! Again, please make sure they know about this. We are a very loyal and vocal group and do a lot to promote Heritage guitars. We need to know that they have our back when the chips are down!
cod65 Posted December 5, 2009 Posted December 5, 2009 personally I would go for a cash rebate first and have it done locally- no reason to have it sent all over the place in this cold season and risk damage or loss, not to mention it disappearing into the ether for another 6 months. If all parties involved took a real look at this and you are 'done right' it seems to me a no brainer: what is a good nut job cost in your area? I think gary brawer here in SF, one of the best, would charge 100$. How much would it cost heritage (or your dealer ) to ship it to and fro? (100$?) I just don't get it. I can tell you what will probably happen : Heritage will tell you to ship it back .... what ever ..... I can only imagine the temperature and humidity in Kalamazoo right now. Insane. someone needs to go to business school.
golferwave Posted December 5, 2009 Posted December 5, 2009 I do believe that's the worst nut cut I've ever seen. I've always replaced every nut on my Heritages with a bone one. Sorry you've had to deal with this. As the others have said, be sure to email pics to Vince. I know they'll take care of you but it's still a pain and inconvenience to ship and wait. Let us know the outcome.
cod65 Posted December 5, 2009 Posted December 5, 2009 I do believe that's the worst nut cut I've ever seen. It looks like the first time I tried to make my own nut without the proper tools
FrankV Posted December 5, 2009 Posted December 5, 2009 My first ever 'brand new' guitar is the H-535, which I bought from Wolfe. Sight unseen, except for photos, but I had a good vibe about the guitar and the dealer, in no small part thanks to this site. It's a fine instrument for sure, but it had a couple of little, very minor, scrape marks on the fingerboard, up at the 14th & 20th frets but not a big deal at all, some might see it as evidence of hand-working, and part of the charm. The nut, however, is a bit of a problem. It doesn't have the whacked out spacing like the one in the photo, but the depth of the slots is not great. The low E is way too shallow, and the D & G were a bit deep, and 'tight' for the strings. I use 10's, which the rep at Wolfe said the guitar was set up with. But, I later called and spoke with him about the tailpiece and bridge hardware being all loose, when I changed the strings, and he allowed that he may have been a bit lax in the set up. WTF? 2 grand, the customer calls in the order and doesn't break chops, and the effort is not made to have it perfect? Also, the posts for the bridge don't look exactly perpendicular to the body of the guitar, they seem to 'pitch' slightly toward the headstock, but I'll allow I might be looking too hard for trouble there. Time will tell. Setting it up is not rocket science, so I had fun tweaking the action and getting it just right. The nut, I'm living with it. The D & G string slots are actually 'wearing', making the slot a bit sloppy. I know I'm not playing that much, in 2 months! The low E doesn't pop out, and I put a little graphite on the others. I'll wind up having it replaced. The nut material seems soft, actually. All that said, it is a beautiful guitar, and a lot of fun to play. It's got the Seth Lover pickups, and man, what gorgeous tones come out of that thing!
blueox Posted December 5, 2009 Posted December 5, 2009 This problem should be put in the dealer's lap to fix, but it is indeed a black eye for Heritage where it was caused. In my case, two of my (non-Heritage) guitars came by mail order years ago, sight-unseen--one was a rare bird that would most likely not be found in my area, while I price-shopped for the other one. They both arrived in great shape. However, I would not buy a guitar sight-unseen again due to possible snafus such as the one mentioned above. There is just too much money involved, and I just cannot take the risks like I used to. I'm really enjoying my impressive Heritage that I found at a dealer in August and was able to check it out in person, so there are no issues. And I have the money in hand and am ready to buy another new Heritage (not interested in used), but I, for one, will not do mail order or Internet order--period. For my peace of mind, I have to see and play an instrument before money changes hands.
High Flying Bird Posted December 5, 2009 Posted December 5, 2009 I will see what a Cannon SLR and a macro lens can do this weekend. That's what I am talking about. If it is the 100mm f-2.8 you should get the best pictures of this shitily slotted nut. I would call and ask to speak to Marv Lamb.
brentrocks Posted December 5, 2009 Posted December 5, 2009 I am really sorry to hear that this happened....i would follow the advice of going through your dealer....they sell the guitar, they should stand behind what they sell. Heritage will stand behind it too, but the dealer should be your 1st move.
chico Posted December 5, 2009 Posted December 5, 2009 Sorry bout your situation. I hope the wine helped a bit. That sure is unexplainable, for a thing like that to get past the final insp. is unreal. But as has been mentioned, it'll be best to go back to the factory via the dealer. I can't wait to read the post from you down the road after it has all been made good, which I'm sure it will. It'd be nice to have it back in time for the holidays!
Foggy Posted December 5, 2009 Posted December 5, 2009 Sorry bout your situation. I hope the wine helped a bit. That sure is unexplainable, for a thing like that to get past the final insp. is unreal. But as has been mentioned, it'll be best to go back to the factory via the dealer. I can't wait to read the post from you down the road after it has all been made good, which I'm sure it will. It'd be nice to have it back in time for the holidays! Agree with Chico. It's important that Heritage (and its dealer) gets this right.
hiro Posted December 5, 2009 Posted December 5, 2009 Hope it all gets resolved. Man that is a bummer, and its custom too. And it slipped through two sets of eyes (dealers' and the factory). I'd be hopping pissed if I spent the time, and money getting a custom and then its unplayable. Makes me want to stay away from mail ordering guitars. The ability to inspect, see, and play what you're getting is paramount . . . But some people may live in places where they don't have that luxury. Good tip on the bone thing . . . I replaced the ones on my classical and it helps with the tone.
tulk1 Posted December 5, 2009 Posted December 5, 2009 As I said, the rest of the instrument is beautiful. It arrived at my dealer on November 19th and was shipped to me on Dec 1st. There was plenty of time for them to say, "Bob I am sorry but we need to send it back to the factory, its just not right". They did not. Best, Bob Whoa! This is disturbing in of itself. They had your guitar for 2 weeks before shipping it to you? My last custom order was shipped from the dealer the day he received it. And to give him credit, he took it out, verified it was what I ordered (uh ... with H, it's "close" to what I ordered) and shipped. Okay, so I got a good guy. Doesn't relieve Heritage from responsibility in shipping your dealer a guitar with a nut like that. Hope my Prospect is set up a bit better when it arrives. And that Heritage helps you get some closure on this.
iim7v7im7 Posted December 5, 2009 Author Posted December 5, 2009 I have both telephoned and e-mailed a note to my dealer (with the same photo and expressing my extreme disappointment). I plan on taking it to a local luthier. The rest of the instrument seems AOK and why should I risk having it damaged this time of year? People's point about the insured shipping costs are also true (they likely outweigh the nut replacement cost). My last thought is this. If this instrument had arrived into their shop from Heritage as a stock instrument from Heritage for their invenetory would they have accepted it? I have to believe the answer is no. The fact that they sent it onward to me saddens me. Particularly since I was a repeat customer. I had no expectations of a "perfect nut", but one defective at this level was beyond my wildest dreams. I hope that both Heritage and my dealer do what I believe is the right thing, but frankly, I have no expectations. Nuf said...photos to come (Both the good and bad)
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