Good News and Bad News

[Thundersteel]

I'm hoping the dealer will chime in here and offer an explanation. They've been known to post here occasionally.

[Dick Seacup]

Sorry to hear about, and see (!), your disappointing custom order, Bob. I have never ordered a custom-built guitar. There are plenty of people who have and posted positive threads. But, the ones that give me pause are the threads like yours. My luck runs in such a way that if something can go wrong, it will. It always works out in the end, but man I hate having to deal with the crap (I'm sure you do, too). Maybe I'll stick to used guitars. I am confident your dealer will work with you and the factory to get it resolved, but....damn, that's disappointing.

[pcovers]

The second shot with the macro was one great photo.

 

It was certainly a macro. I couldn't tell what it was showing relative to the problem?

[iim7v7im7]

It is not clear in the photo but the overall crown of the nut does not match the frets (they shaped the profile too low and not concentrically the the fret crown). To compensate they filed the slots extremely shallow (aside from incorrect spacing) to achieve adequate fret clearance. This is why the wound strings are barely in their slots.

 

It was certainly a macro. I couldn't tell what it was showing relative to the problem?

[iim7v7im7]

Look guys, I suspect we have beaten this one to death and let's hope that Parson's St. will take note and change things for the better.

 

As far as my dealer, they have been proactive, collaborative and generous in his commitment to make things right. They are as tired of dealing with these issues as anybody. There is no need for speculation about them installing a nut (they did not). I believe that they are as frustrated as all of us with dealing with these types of issues. Some of you may have past beefs with them, but I do not. As I stated earlier, I did not feel good about this, but its totally correctable and they are behaving in a caring and professional manner; which is the best one can hope for given the circumstances.

 

I did not post this here for a beat-up session, but for awareness in the spirit of change for the better. It's just not that hard to make a good nut to a standardized specification. The rest of the instrument is a beauty and OVERALL, I am very happy with it. I will take it locally for a new nut and a custom setup.

 

I'll post more photos at a later date...

 

Nuf Said,

 

Bob

 

[Jazzpunk]

Look guys, I suspect we have beaten this one to death and let's hope that Parson's St. will take note and change things for the better.

 

As far as my dealer, they have been proactive, collaborative and generous in his commitment to make things right. They are as tired of dealing with these issues as anybody. There is no need for speculation about them installing a nut (they did not). I believe that they are as frustrated as all of us with dealing with these types of issues. Some of you may have past beefs with them, but I do not. As I stated earlier, I did not feel good about this, but its totally correctable and they are behaving in a caring and professional manner; which is the best one can hope for given the circumstances.

 

I did not post this here for a beat-up session, but for awareness in the spirit of change for the better. It's just not that hard to make a good nut to a standardized specification. The rest of the instrument is a beauty and OVERALL, I am very happy with it. I will take it locally for a new nut and a custom setup.

 

I'll post more photos at a later date...

 

Nuf Said,

 

Bob

 

 

 

Not sure whose posts are out of line in your mind but I would like to say that any information I have offered has been in the same spirit. I would like to see this problem rectified at the source.

 

I pm'd you my personal experience in hopes that it would help you to take some stronger action. You chose not to respond which is fine but it is not fair to post in a public forum and than ask others not to voice their opinion (see my headstock thread and you'll see what I mean lol).

 

I only urged you to have direct communication with Heritage because I do not believe they are closely monitoring this forum. Furthermore, in my own experience with having to replace the nut on my 575 I was extremely let down by how Heritage chose to deal with it (or not deal with it I should say). So much so that I even stopped coming to this forum for awhile as I felt others here simply didn't want to acknowledge what had happened. It was a real bummer.

 

Anyway, I only tried to communicate my similar experience in hopes of a) keeping an open an honest dialogue about both Heritage and their dealers and b ) to let you know I had your back on this.

 

I won't post anymore on this topic as you seem to have things sorted out now. Glad to hear things are working out!

[cod65]

Look guys, I suspect we have beaten this one to death and let's hope that Parson's St. will take note and change things for the better.

 

As far as my dealer, they have been proactive, collaborative and generous in his commitment to make things right.

 

 

Well said, Bob.

 

I think I may speak for everyone else who has dealt with heritage et al, pro or con: ..... most of all it's just a very weird mystery and I wanna know how it came to be!

 

to Heritage et al: here is just one of possible co. that makes a pre-slotted nut:

http://tinyurl.com/yhfhuoq

 

accompanying the guitar leaving the factory is a note like this:

 

'To the lucky owner of a new Heritage, your quality instrument has been fitted with a pre-slotted, generic nut to allow you to enjoy your guitar immediately. Since all players have different expectations and needs it would be impossible to make a custom nut for all players and styles at the factory without individual consultation. This nut has been given a basic height adjustment to allow a reasonable compromise and provide you with the groundwork for a more personal instrument to be decided upon at your discretion. A generic slotted nut will provide you a starting point, and ( based on your style of playing and the type and thickness of strings you prefer, etc) you may opt to replace it with a custom-made nut. The pre-slotted nut allows us consistent quality control and to ocntinue to offer high-quality guitars at a very reasonable price. Heritage offers professionally crafted nuts to your specs upon request, but for a majority of customers the slotted nut is a good starting point.

 

sincerely , marv, et al. kalamazoo, MI'

[rjsanders]

Look guys, I suspect we have beaten this one to death and let's hope that Parson's St. will take note and change things for the better.

...

I'll post more photos at a later date...

 

Nuf Said,

 

Bob

...

 

 

OK, Bob,

glad you have a supportive dealer

[Kuz]

Look guys, I suspect we have beaten this one to death and let's hope that Parson's St. will take note and change things for the better.

 

There is no nAs far as my dealer, they have been proactive, collaborative and generous in his commitment to make things right. They are as tired of dealing with these issues as anybody. eed for speculation about them installing a nut (they did not). I believe that they are as frustrated as all of us with dealing with these types of issues. Some of you may have past beefs with them, but I do not. As I stated earlier, I did not feel good about this, but its totally correctable and they are behaving in a caring and professional manner; which is the best one can hope for given the circumstances.

 

I did not post this here for a beat-up session, but for awareness in the spirit of change for the better. It's just not that hard to make a good nut to a standardized specification. The rest of the instrument is a beauty and OVERALL, I am very happy with it. I will take it locally for a new nut and a custom setup.

 

I'll post more photos at a later date...

 

Nuf Said,

 

Bob

 

 

My last statement on the matter is that THE DEALER should learn from this experience just as much AS HERITAGE.

 

I am glad they are being supportive, professional, and all that... but line is that they could NOT have done their ADVERTISED PROFESSIONAL setup on that guitar.

 

HERITAGE is firstly at fault, but when you claim to offer a professional setup and you don't, well the dealer should learn from this experience as well.

 

That's it for me as well on this topic. Get her fixed right and then play the snot out of that beauty!

[blueox]

Whoa! This is disturbing in of itself. They had your guitar for 2 weeks before shipping it to you?

 

Yes, I too believe that there are other issues here beyond the bum nut.

[blueox]

Whoa! This is disturbing in of itself. They had your guitar for 2 weeks before shipping it to you?

 

Yes, I too believe that there are other issues here beyond the bum nut.

[FrankV]

Hey cod65, thanks for the post about replacing the nut, the clip was very informative. I won't tackle the job, as I don't have the files, not to mention the experience filing the slots to the proper depth with respect to the fret height, but it was interesting to see the process. Not only will I be able to replace the original nut, which is wearing badly after only a few weeks, believe it or not, but I'll be able to match the color of the binding, which is a nice cream color. The original nut is bright white, and kind of stood out unnecessarily. And I'm going to work the phrase "pre-slotted mojo bone nut" into my next song! Yeah baby!

[Poelbaum]

well I searched to see who the dealer was and can say it certainly gave me some concern. I have purchased from him in the past (non heritage) and received excellent service and I have a 25th anni 535 on order with him. As I am in Canada I am going to be making very clear to him that before he ships he needs to ensure that everything is all good - twice! For me to have to send back to get it dealt with would be Very expensive and a real annoyance with customs. I am glad to hear that he is dealing with this fairly though.

[PacerX]

I've owned quite a few production Fenders in my lifetime now. Geeze... probably a dozen of them over 30 years, from Squires to Mexi's to American Standards to an American Deluxe, and beat the snot out of literally dozens more.

 

In all that time, I've never run into a nut that was an issue. Everyone of them could be setup to slam the action low (and I mean LOW, brothers and sisters...).

 

Fender, who cranks out bajillions of guitars a year from multiple factories, manages to build $150 Squires with as good of a nut as anything made by anybody.

 

 

As has been stated before, Heritage MUST get their quality act together. ONE guitar leaving the factory in that condition is one too many, and when you can walk into nearly any retailer and pick up Fender after Fender with no issues whatsoever, it gives a good indication of what is possible when sufficient attention to detail and a robust quality process are put in place.

 

For Heritage, make a single person responsible for QC who has the power to stop an order dead in its tracks until the guitar is flawless. He/she puts their name on a card with a checklist that is shipped with the guitar, along with their supervisor's phone number.

[Thundersteel]

I don't think they have any kind of QA program. I might be wrong, though.

[iim7v7im7]

Hi,

 

I am following up to my Dec 4th posting regarding a new Heritage H535 that I had commissioned with a poorly made nut. Yesterday, I took the guitar to Baltimore to have luthier Phil Jacoby (www.philtone.com) evaluate the instrument, replace the nut and set it up. Here is what he found:

 

The nut was both badly made and not completed. Pilot grooves had been established but the profile height was ~0.020” too high and the profile did not match the fingerboard crown. The spacing was also not even between the strings. Phil fabricated a proper bone nut. I will attach photos later (before & after)

 

Based on a Plek machine diagnosis, the finger board was found between frets 6, 7, 8 and 9 to be concave, particularly towards the B and E string to an extent where the factory fret wire was not tall enough for the plek machine to create the proper crown on the wire. This was unlikely due to shrinkage; but was more likely attributed to either a depression made by clamping or improper sanding. This left me with 3 options:

 

(1) Do nothing about it

(2) Replace the fret wire in frets 6, 7, 8 and 9 with taller wire, leaving the binding pips intact; so that the machine could contour leaving the localized concavity intact

(3) Remove all frets, replace the binding (due to the pips); resurface the fingerboard properly and install new frets.

 

I chose option number 2. I will attach the plek machine scans latter to show you the contour. In the scans you will see the fingerboard profile, the fret wire profile vs. the theoretical profile desired for the strings. I will show you both the before and after. I will also show you the plek analysis for my 2000 Heritage Sweet 16 which I also had evaluated which shows a pretty good neck in comparison. Despite this fingerboard depression; the instrument plays beautifully post-repair.

 

Lastly, I wanted to share some things that are the source of great disappointment beyond the quality of the instrument itself. After my initial posting I had numerous conversations with my dealer, who I must say was both understanding and willing to assist in the remedy of the nut situation. So if you walk away from this post knowing one thing; I am satisfied that my dealer was honest and I believe fair about remedying the situation. I am convinced that this is a Parsons Street issue.

 

I also heard directly from Vince Margol of Heritage Guitars on Dec 6th who expressed his embarrassment and disappointment and willingness to whatever it takes to make things right. Vince wanted to speak with me, I provided him with two telephone numbers and days when I could be reached. After not hearing from Vince, I e-mailed him on Dec 11th and again on Dec 19th. I have not heard back from him.

 

I will share my last e-mail to him with you:

 

Mr. Margol,

 

Your words of concern in your Dec 6th e-mail are appearing quite hollow at the moment.

 

Vince Margol on Dec 6th: " If it is ok, I would still like to call you later in the week."

 

Bob on Dec 6th: "I respect and appreciate your sentiments. I have every confidence you will make a positive change out of this. If you'd like you can call me at my office at

(name of my company deleted)

later this week (I believe I am fairly booked Monday and Tuesday). "

 

You did not call me at the numbers that I provided you on Dec 6th (both home and my office), nor did you respond to my inquiry e-mail of Dec 11th. What am I to think about you and your company?

 

Say what you'll do, and do what you say....

 

Deeply Disappointed,

As I hope all of you can appreciate; I am done doing business with the Heritage Guitar Company for obvious reasons. This makes me extremely sad personally and for their future as a viable company. If this is how they deal with quality issues they are doomed. All that I am left with at this point is they simply, don't care. This attitude appears to permeate from the top.

 

Bob

[barrymclark]

Certainly, I don't know how my level of product scrutiny compares to yours, but sad to hear you didn't have the great experience so many have had here.

 

Certainly hope this is isolated and doesn't become the Heritage Tax.

[rjsanders]

hey, Bob, i share your disappointment & await your reports and further developments. checked out the philtone site & recognized several artists right away (Shawn Purcell, Pete Cage, & Harry Jacobson). i had your experience in mind when i checked out Josh Perkins' new custom Sweet 16, which appeared to be flawless (Josh is an experienced luthier, didn't mention any flaws when i played it 2 weeks after receipt).

 

being a semi-eternal optimist i also hope Vince will respond...

[iim7v7im7]

Barry,

 

This was my second Heritage. I purchased a custom Sweet 16 back in 2000. I did not have quality issues with this instrument like my new 2009 H535. This is why I was back for a second instrument. The nut was not a subtle problem. I too hope that this is an isolated incident, but based on comments and discussions that I have had, unfortunately, it is not.

 

Bob

 

 

Certainly, I don't know how my level of product scrutiny compares to yours, but sad to hear you didn't have the great experience so many have had here.

 

Certainly hope this is isolated and doesn't become the Heritage Tax.

[barrymclark]

Just bothers me that this was CLEARLY not even played in the factory for a quick quality control check. I don't mean an hour long jam session. I mean just a couple of chords up and down the neck to make sure it is good to go. That would have smoked out the oversight of the nut. If the nut got fixed, then the fret issue could have been found if it was enough of an issue to keep it from being reasonably playable.

 

I just hate to see another American company do this to themself. A few more minutes of their time would have kept them from getting another black eye.

[111518]

Bob:

Not a good story to hear, but I much appreciate your posts. No excuse for letting shoddy work out the door, no excuse for shoddy treatment. Glad at least that your luthier was able to make the guitar playable, even if the underlying fretboard problem remains.

 

Not that it does anything to change your experience, but let's hope that something positive will happen at Heritage to address these problems.

[Kuz]

Heritage usually takes an extended leave around the Holidays (at least a week, if not two).

 

I would call Vince back after the first of the year to try to reach him. Just the fact that one of the owners wants to speak with you is important.

 

Good luck with your guitar.

[Kuz]

Just bothers me that this was CLEARLY not even played in the factory for a quick quality control check. I don't mean an hour long jam session. I mean just a couple of chords up and down the neck to make sure it is good to go. That would have smoked out the oversight of the nut. If the nut got fixed, then the fret issue could have been found if it was enough of an issue to keep it from being reasonably playable.

 

I just hate to see another American company do this to themself. A few more minutes of their time would have kept them from getting another black eye.

 

 

Again, I am not picking sides in this debate, but why wasn't the dealer held accountable for this is well. This dealer supposedly loves to advertise there "profession setups". Obviously, a set up wasn't done, or not done correctly.

 

The accountability here has to be with both parties, in my opinion.

[Jazzpunk]

Lastly, I wanted to share some things that are the source of great disappointment beyond the quality of the instrument itself. After my initial posting I had numerous conversations with my dealer, who I must say was both understanding and willing to assist in the remedy of the nut situation. So if you walk away from this post knowing one thing; I am satisfied that my dealer was honest and I believe fair about remedying the situation. I am convinced that this is a Parsons Street issue.

 

I also heard directly from Vince Margol of Heritage Guitars on Dec 6th who expressed his embarrassment and disappointment and willingness to whatever it takes to make things right. Vince wanted to speak with me, I provided him with two telephone numbers and days when I could be reached. After not hearing from Vince, I e-mailed him on Dec 11th and again on Dec 19th. I have not heard back from him.

 

I will share my last e-mail to him with you:

 

Mr. Margol,

 

Your words of concern in your Dec 6th e-mail are appearing quite hollow at the moment.

 

Vince Margol on Dec 6th: " If it is ok, I would still like to call you later in the week."

 

Bob on Dec 6th: "I respect and appreciate your sentiments. I have every confidence you will make a positive change out of this. If you'd like you can call me at my office at

(name of my company deleted)

later this week (I believe I am fairly booked Monday and Tuesday). "

 

You did not call me at the numbers that I provided you on Dec 6th (both home and my office), nor did you respond to my inquiry e-mail of Dec 11th. What am I to think about you and your company?

 

Say what you'll do, and do what you say....

 

Deeply Disappointed,

As I hope all of you can appreciate; I am done doing business with the Heritage Guitar Company for obvious reasons. This makes me extremely sad personally and for their future as a viable company. If this is how they deal with quality issues they are doomed. All that I am left with at this point is they simply, don't care. This attitude appears to permeate from the top.

 

Bob

 

I am really sorry to hear about this. I had the exact same experience regarding the issues with my 575. I had sincerely hoped that the way my complaints were handled (ie completely blown off) by Heritage was an isolated incident.

 

Initially it seemed Heritage was concerned about my satisfaction but after requesting my contact information via e-mail, I never received a single call. In addition to my correspondence via e-mail, I called several times to no avail. After a few e-mails back and forth, Heritage simply stopped responding.

 

I cannot tell you how disappointed I was with the experience. Truth be told, it is one of the worst interactions I've ever had with any company.

 

The good news for me was that after fixing my QC issues (minor in comparison to yours in all honesty), my 575 played like a dream! That and the fact that the people on this forum are all such great guys is what healed the wounds from my lousy interaction with Heritage.

 

I wish I had the wonderful stories that others here have told about a company that cares about each customer but I do not. What I do have is a guitar that I now love and that's really all that matters for me. I hope you end up with the same and that you eventually bond with your instrument in a way that will wipe away the bitter taste of this experience.

[barrymclark]

Again, I am not picking sides in this debate, but why wasn't the dealer held accountable for this is well. This dealer supposedly loves to advertise there "profession setups". Obviously, a set up wasn't done, or not done correctly.

 

The accountability here has to be with both parties, in my opinion.

Oh, please understand I am not discounting the dealer's miss. But Heritage dropped the ball first and just because the dealer didn't catch it, doesn't mean that Heritage is absolved of guilt in the matter. Just means there are two guilty parties. Certainly my vision of Heritage is of a company born out of the ashes of Gibson that takes a great deal of pride in their product. Not just the name, but each individual guitar that leaves their factory. Because if I buy new, I want the guitar they make to be as important to them as it is to me. I think that is a reasonable want.