Attenuator for Christmas

[MacDoggie]

Well, instead of a new small watt boutique amp, I decided to buy me an attenuator for Christmas. I'm curious how many of you use one, and any tips you may have along the lines of how to use it and what not to do with it.

 

Thanks! Merry Christmas!!!

[tulk1]

Well, instead of a new small watt boutique amp, I decided to buy me an attenuator for Christmas. I'm curious how many of you use one, and any tips you may have along the lines of how to use it and what not to do with it.

 

Thanks! Merry Christmas!!!

Mac, I've had a Weber MiniMass. It was okay. Seems like it wanted to have the amp cranked before it would do anything. So I mostly got distortion out of it. Which I don't really use except thru pedals.

 

The Dr. Z Carmen Ghia came with his Brake Lite installed. Has 6 positions. Not sure how much each one attenuates. But I can tell you that it does nothing to the sound of the amp ... except make it quieter. Meaning it doesn't seem to effect the tone; is really transparent. And I don't have to crank the amp to get the attenuator to work. Granted, I've only had it since this past Saturday. But I'd recommend at least looking into that one.

[JeffB]

Ive used a bad cat leash and a thd hot plate.

I decided I just didnt need one.

What purpose do you want it for?

I used it to just wipe off a couple of db on a 100w marshall for gigs. It sort of helped me achieve it but didnt quite give me what I wanted.

It was never a solution to tame an amp at home, though it made an errant Mesa with a terrible mid spike bearable at home levels. Just.

One thing that caught my attention was that Bad Cat wont warranty any of their amps if you use an attenuator with it, even their own leash.

[gopeteygo]

I use an Ultimate to get the goods in my MetroAmp 50w Plexi without having to go to jail. It's worth that and more. Cranked tone at much lower volumes.

[MacDoggie]

Mac, I've had a Weber MiniMass. It was okay. Seems like it wanted to have the amp cranked before it would do anything. So I mostly got distortion out of it. Which I don't really use except thru pedals.

 

The Dr. Z Carmen Ghia came with his Brake Lite installed. Has 6 positions. Not sure how much each one attenuates. But I can tell you that it does nothing to the sound of the amp ... except make it quieter. Meaning it doesn't seem to effect the tone; is really transparent. And I don't have to crank the amp to get the attenuator to work. Granted, I've only had it since this past Saturday. But I'd recommend at least looking into that one.

 

 

Oh oh, I'm getting the Weber Mass, I know someone who raves about the Weber. I'm wanting to drive the tubes in the amps I have without blowing the windows out of the room. I want it to make the amp sound as it would loud, but quieter. I guess if the Weber doesn't work, I'll have to return it and eat the 25% restocking fee. You mention specifically the Dr. Z doesn't effect the tone. Do you feel the Weber effected the tone, or you just needed to drive the tubes so hot that the distortion came with it?

 

Nice pickup on the Dr. Z. I've heard them and think they're one of the better EL 84 amps out there. The amp hunt was killed by other household expenses this year. This is my version of the poor man's low watt tube amp.

[brentrocks]

I decided to buy me an attenuator for Christmas.

 

 

what is a attenuator?

[Thundersteel]

what is a attenuator?

 

Tube amplifiers sound best when cranked; unfortunately, your neighbors won't like you for long.

 

The attenuator lets you have that "cranked" sound at a managable volume.

[brentrocks]

Tube amplifiers sound best when cranked; unfortunately, your neighbors won't like you for long.

 

The attenuator lets you have that "cranked" sound at a managable volume.

 

oh really?

 

 

humm...

[tulk1]

Oh oh, I'm getting the Weber Mass, I know someone who raves about the Weber. I'm wanting to drive the tubes in the amps I have without blowing the windows out of the room. I want it to make the amp sound as it would loud, but quieter. I guess if the Weber doesn't work, I'll have to return it and eat the 25% restocking fee. You mention specifically the Dr. Z doesn't effect the tone. Do you feel the Weber effected the tone, or you just needed to drive the tubes so hot that the distortion came with it?

 

Nice pickup on the Dr. Z. I've heard them and think they're one of the better EL 84 amps out there. The amp hunt was killed by other household expenses this year. This is my version of the poor man's low watt tube amp.

Mac,

 

The MiniMass and the larger Weber Mass don't use the same components to reduce the volume. The larger ones use a speaker driver, where as the Mini just used diodes and transitors and some magic sprinkles. And yes, I think the Mini affected the tone. I played the Z a bit more since answering the first time. There's a bit of a noticeable tone affect when you hit the lowest setting. But it still sounds more like the unattenuated tone that I remember thru the Mini.

[MacDoggie]

Mac,

 

The MiniMass and the larger Weber Mass don't use the same components to reduce the volume. The larger ones use a speaker driver, where as the Mini just used diodes and transitors and some magic sprinkles. And yes, I think the Mini affected the tone. I played the Z a bit more since answering the first time. There's a bit of a noticeable tone affect when you hit the lowest setting. But it still sounds more like the unattenuated tone that I remember thru the Mini.

 

Thanks for the info Kenny. I really was rather blind in ordering the Mass. The guy I know just gave me the advise of "bigger is always better". Hopefully I'll be happy with the results. Enjoy the Z! Maybe I'll have another amp hunt to look forward to next year...

 

In the mean time keep playin and Merry Christmas!

[t0aj15]

I've had a THD Hotplate for several years now, but I don't really use the attenuator part of it. Instead I use it to acquire a line level signal directly from the speaker output which is then used to drive an efx unit which drives a second (stereo) power amp in my W/D/W rig.

[iim7v7im7]

Hi,

 

I have an Ultimate Attenuator for about a year now, and I find it incredibly useful.

http://www.ultimateattenuator.com/

Not for bedroom level playing, but for being able to set your amp at it's "sweet spot"; that volume where it begins to open up and the pre-amp begins to respond to your touch and sing. I then use it to adjust the volume down to an appropriate level for the room that I am palying in. One of my amps, does have a master volume, but I far prefer the tone that I get by using the attenuator.

 

Technically, I believe it is actually a re-amp system. It provides a dummy load to the amp and re-amping the signal via solid state technology to drive the speakers. I know that this sounds weird (it did to me), it sounds great. I really can't tell that it is engaged. It is not inexpensive, but I find it very useful.

 

The other newer attenuators (Dr. Z air brake, THD Hotplate, Alessandro Muzzle, Badcat Leash, Weber Mini-Mass have been around for years) that people seem to like are:

 

Alex's Attenuator: http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showthrea...ight=attenuator

Aracom Attenuator: http://www.aracom-amps.com/products/prx150.html#

Ho's Attenuator (similar to UA) http://hoelectronics.com/Product2.php

 

Good Luck,

 

Bob

[tulk1]

Hi,

 

I have an Ultimate Attenuator for about a year now, and I find it incredibly useful.

http://www.ultimateattenuator.com/

Not for bedroom level playing, but for being able to set your amp at it's "sweet spot"; that volume where it begins to open up and the pre-amp begins to respond to your touch and sing. I then use it to adjust the volume down to an appropriate level for the room that I am palying in. One of my amps, does have a master volume, but I far prefer the tone that I get by using the attenuator.

 

Technically, I believe it is actually a re-amp system. It provides a dummy load to the amp and re-amping the signal via solid state technology to drive the speakers. I know that this sounds weird (it did to me), it sounds great. I really can't tell that it is engaged. It is not inexpensive, but I find it very useful.

 

The other newer attenuators (Dr. Z air brake, THD Hotplate, Alessandro Muzzle, Badcat Leash, Weber Mini-Mass have been around for years) that people seem to like are:

 

Alex's Attenuator: http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showthrea...ight=attenuator

Aracom Attenuator: http://www.aracom-amps.com/products/prx150.html#

Ho's Attenuator (similar to UA) http://hoelectronics.com/Product2.php

 

Good Luck,

 

Bob

 

You know, Bob, isn't this just the most wonderful world for music and toys we're living in right now? A veritable plethora of stuff to choose from. If you don't like one product, just look, there's another that does the same thing, different technology, different covering, same results. Or similar results. I'd never heard of Aracom Amps. But they've got a sh*t load of 'em. And they look pretty dandy, too. I got to get that wife onto buying a winning lottery ticket or find an old rich uncle. Too many toys!!!

[iim7v7im7]

Agreed...the number of choices today is fantastic. But sometimes, I long for traveling to a gig/play session with a guitar case in one hand and a light combo in the other !

 

:-)

 

You know, Bob, isn't this just the most wonderful world for music and toys we're living in right now? A veritable plethora of stuff to choose from. If you don't like one product, just look, there's another that does the same thing, different technology, different covering, same results. Or similar results. I'd never heard of Aracom Amps. But they've got a sh*t load of 'em. And they look pretty dandy, too. I got to get that wife onto buying a winning lottery ticket or find an old rich uncle. Too many toys!!!

[MacDoggie]

Allright!!! Just checked the porch and FedEx left the box, in the rain of course, but double boxed so no harm done. Wife saying I can't open it until tonight. Oh the pain though, we have to go to her family's Christmas tomorrow. Not much play time until Saturday. Can't wait...

[JeffB]

New toy, cant play!!! aarrrhhg.

 

^_^

[212Mavguy]

Well, instead of a new small watt boutique amp, I decided to buy me an attenuator for Christmas. I'm curious how many of you use one, and any tips you may have along the lines of how to use it and what not to do with it.

 

Thanks! Merry Christmas!!!

 

Hi MacDoggie,

 

I recently ordered a Weber MASS 100 watt unit with all the bells and whistles except the rackmount ears, have used it with amps ranging from single ended 6-10 watts up to 50 watts, with great variety in makes, builds, and tube types. Have played out with it in small rooms and also in my home at widely varying levels of volume and attenuation through 5-6 amps.

 

It gave me a whole new stable of amps, PERIOD. I love it and wish that I had gotten it sooner. Couple things I noticed right off the bat:

 

1) There is no one setting fits all amps thang about it. Each amp you use it with will sound its best with that MASS and amp tweaked mutally for each other's benefit.

 

2) Not all that much attenuation happens until I got down to 4 or less on a scale of 1-10 on the MASS attenuation dial, not much tone change until less than 3, the more you squash the amp down the more one might wish to add 3 or 6db on the treble boost switch, which to my ears affects the very high frequencies dialed in by a presence knob if the amp's tone stack had one. Generally most of the slight treble tone changes can be compensated for by the main amp's tone stack. The rule of thumb is to attenuate as little as possible to get to where you need to get the amp to have the sweet spot sounds. In multi channel amps the clean tone will not stay clean if the amp is over-attenuated!

 

I have a one of a kind boutique Toad Suck Tones 6094 Custom head running in push pull a pair of Bendix 6094 cold war nuclear missile type power tubes, a serious 18 watt killer biased at 75%. That amp did not sound all that dirty even with the preamp gain knob dimed until the master was sitting nearly halfway or over, similar to a Fender Blues JR. in that regard, that little Toad Sucker was too loud for most venues playing through my 2/15 semi closed back/JBL g135's in series for 16 ohms. With that amp, it worked best to have the amp 3/4 to dimed on the master volume, high power/low power switch on low power on the MASS, MASS treble boost off, and slightly higher treble knob setting on the amp. With the MASS at somewhere around 3-4, serious, serious Plexi balls to the wall at the highest gain settings, and very Hendrix-y "Red House" tones at lower gain settings.

 

Another boutique, a Siegmund Midnight Blues Breaker JTM45 type head with the enhanced Radiospares OT, having the class A/AB switch, it was also too loud to get into its sweet spot, even running it with a pair of 40's vintage RT 6f6g, 10 1/2 watts or so class A into a 2/12 semi closed back/JBL g125's in series for 16 ohms. It sounds very very sweet with that setup. With the MASS I was able to finally use the tubes it was designed for, Genalex smoked glass kt66, set right into the sweet spot, on this amp at approximatelyhalf way up on the master (+3-1), High power MASS switch setting, the beauty in the tones was jaw dropping. It "beanoed" my head so hard that it totally floored me. Throaty, singing, vowelly, sustain-y and sweet. Again, no MASS treble boost used, just a bump up on the presence. knob.

 

Yet another, a Mesa 2/12 Maverick with NOS pre's, mainly Siemens and Mullard, 6p14p-ev power tubes, 5v4 rec tube, and JBL MI-12 speakers in series for 16 ohms, benefited from master volume between 9:30 and 11:00, not all that much higher than I had used before. MASS knob at 3 1/2, Hi side of power switch, still clean cleans using bright side of bright/fat switch, and seriously singing/sustain for days Carlos "Black Magic Woman" tones at an appropriately adjusted gain channel. Treble boost switch set at +3. Those speakers are pretty dark and smooth, but they also respond to palm muting with more of that classic Mesa chug than the stock Celestion Vintage 30's.

 

3) Another wonderful benefit for any amp I used it with was the reduction/killing of amp hum and pickup noise, especially at higher gain settings, the attenuator really tames those. Nice for poorly shielded guitars running single coils!

 

Your results might be different than mine, but I found my MASS to be so useful that again, I wished I had gotten it sooner. I have not used the line out feature yet, but the line out to the mixing board has a volume, treble, mid, bass tone stack plus a bypass switch for that tone stack.

 

Also, it has a headphone out, and at full attenuation it serves as a dummy load for leaving speakers disconnected for nearly silent bedroom practice,

 

I ordered with the footswitch and footswitch wall wart power supply option, footswitch bypasses all attenuation, but line out still functions. Haven't used that yet.

 

Very aware of my FNG-ness here... Hope this helps and sorry if I sound like I'm too long winded and bong-preachin'...

[tulk1]

Uh .... snip

Foul!!! This is a clear violation of the three paragraph rule! Thirty lashes.

 

Well, maybe not since the post has some great info in it. So ........ nevermind. ................

[MacDoggie]

Hi MacDoggie,

 

I recently ordered a Weber MASS 100 watt unit with all the bells and whistles except the rackmount ears, have used it with amps ranging from single ended 6-10 watts up to 50 watts, with great variety in makes, builds, and tube types. Have played out with it in small rooms and also in my home at widely varying levels of volume and attenuation through 5-6 amps.

 

It gave me a whole new stable of amps, PERIOD. I love it and wish that I had gotten it sooner. Couple things I noticed right off the bat:

 

1) There is no one setting fits all amps thang about it. Each amp you use it with will sound its best with that MASS and amp tweaked mutally for each other's benefit.

 

2) Not all that much attenuation happens until I got down to 4 or less on a scale of 1-10 on the MASS attenuation dial, not much tone change until less than 3, the more you squash the amp down the more one might wish to add 3 or 6db on the treble boost switch, which to my ears affects the very high frequencies dialed in by a presence knob if the amp's tone stack had one. Generally most of the slight treble tone changes can be compensated for by the main amp's tone stack. The rule of thumb is to attenuate as little as possible to get to where you need to get the amp to have the sweet spot sounds. In multi channel amps the clean tone will not stay clean if the amp is over-attenuated!

 

I have a one of a kind boutique Toad Suck Tones 6094 Custom head running in push pull a pair of Bendix 6094 cold war nuclear missile type power tubes, a serious 18 watt killer biased at 75%. That amp did not sound all that dirty even with the preamp gain knob dimed until the master was sitting nearly halfway or over, similar to a Fender Blues JR. in that regard, that little Toad Sucker was too loud for most venues playing through my 2/15 semi closed back/JBL g135's in series for 16 ohms. With that amp, it worked best to have the amp 3/4 to dimed on the master volume, high power/low power switch on low power on the MASS, MASS treble boost off, and slightly higher treble knob setting on the amp. With the MASS at somewhere around 3-4, serious, serious Plexi balls to the wall at the highest gain settings, and very Hendrix-y "Red House" tones at lower gain settings.

 

Another boutique, a Siegmund Midnight Blues Breaker JTM45 type head with the enhanced Radiospares OT, having the class A/AB switch, it was also too loud to get into its sweet spot, even running it with a pair of 40's vintage RT 6f6g, 10 1/2 watts or so class A into a 2/12 semi closed back/JBL g125's in series for 16 ohms. It sounds very very sweet with that setup. With the MASS I was able to finally use the tubes it was designed for, Genalex smoked glass kt66, set right into the sweet spot, on this amp at approximatelyhalf way up on the master (+3-1), High power MASS switch setting, the beauty in the tones was jaw dropping. It "beanoed" my head so hard that it totally floored me. Throaty, singing, vowelly, sustain-y and sweet. Again, no MASS treble boost used, just a bump up on the presence. knob.

 

Yet another, a Mesa 2/12 Maverick with NOS pre's, mainly Siemens and Mullard, 6p14p-ev power tubes, 5v4 rec tube, and JBL MI-12 speakers in series for 16 ohms, benefited from master volume between 9:30 and 11:00, not all that much higher than I had used before. MASS knob at 3 1/2, Hi side of power switch, still clean cleans using bright side of bright/fat switch, and seriously singing/sustain for days Carlos "Black Magic Woman" tones at an appropriately adjusted gain channel. Treble boost switch set at +3. Those speakers are pretty dark and smooth, but they also respond to palm muting with more of that classic Mesa chug than the stock Celestion Vintage 30's.

 

3) Another wonderful benefit for any amp I used it with was the reduction/killing of amp hum and pickup noise, especially at higher gain settings, the attenuator really tames those. Nice for poorly shielded guitars running single coils!

 

Your results might be different than mine, but I found my MASS to be so useful that again, I wished I had gotten it sooner. I have not used the line out feature yet, but the line out to the mixing board has a volume, treble, mid, bass tone stack plus a bypass switch for that tone stack.

 

Also, it has a headphone out, and at full attenuation it serves as a dummy load for leaving speakers disconnected for nearly silent bedroom practice,

 

I ordered with the footswitch and footswitch wall wart power supply option, footswitch bypasses all attenuation, but line out still functions. Haven't used that yet.

 

Very aware of my FNG-ness here... Hope this helps and sorry if I sound like I'm too long winded and bong-preachin'...

 

212MavGuy,

 

Thanks for the post. Great info. I'm pulling my hair out with the new Mass 100. I hooked it up, and all I'm getting is an almost inauditable volumed through the amp. I've tried every combination of settings I can figure out and haven't found an answer. I don't have the headphone out, so I can't check the device through anything but the amp speaker. Any ideas of what else I could try?

[MacDoggie]

BTW - Welcome to the club 212MavGuy! I see you just joined on Christmas. A new Heritage in your stocking?

[MacDoggie]

Well, came home today, thought I'd give it one more try, and shazamm! it started working. No idea what the story is, it is hooked up with the identical connections I've been trying, same switch settings, etc. No idea why it started working today. Next task is dialing in the tone for my various guitars and noting things for the different sound needs.

 

212MavGuy - Do you see a difference in volume when using the tone stack volume? I'm not hearing a difference and the tone stack seems nominal also.

[212Mavguy]

Well, came home today, thought I'd give it one more try, and shazamm! it started working. No idea what the story is, it is hooked up with the identical connections I've been trying, same switch settings, etc. No idea why it started working today. Next task is dialing in the tone for my various guitars and noting things for the different sound needs.

 

212MavGuy - Do you see a difference in volume when using the tone stack volume? I'm not hearing a difference and the tone stack seems nominal also.

 

Hi MacDoggie,

 

Have two plausible hypotheses for the non functional first use...

 

There could have been a moisture related short that got cooked dry (from the first use plus additional time after that first use for evaporation to occur.) You did mention a wet delivery of your new baby...

 

Or more likely a cable was not inserted fully into a jack somewhere in the amp/attenuator/speaker chain and what you heard was the disconnected output tranny singing fom being sent an audio signal into the primary with nowhere for the signal from the secondary side to go to...been there, done that, and got the t-shirt. The one time I did that the OT survived.

 

Bet you a blue label bottle of Chimay Trappist Ale that you will have no more problems of non function.

 

Did you connect the line out connection to a working soundboard/pa rig? That tone stack is only for the line out. So there should not be any effect at all from the tone stack through the speaker out. The only tone control for the speaker out is the treble boost switch. The only volume control for the speaker out is the big main volume knob on the far right.

 

Thanks VERY much for the welcome, and yes, there is a third, rather unusual Heritage in my Christmas stocking!

[MacDoggie]

Hi MacDoggie,

 

Have two plausible hypotheses for the non functional first use...

 

There could have been a moisture related short that got cooked dry (from the first use plus additional time after that first use for evaporation to occur.) You did mention a wet delivery of your new baby...

 

Or more likely a cable was not inserted fully into a jack somewhere in the amp/attenuator/speaker chain and what you heard was the disconnected output tranny singing fom being sent an audio signal into the primary with nowhere for the signal from the secondary side to go to...been there, done that, and got the t-shirt. The one time I did that the OT survived.

 

Bet you a blue label bottle of Chimay Trappist Ale that you will have no more problems of non function.

 

Did you connect the line out connection to a working soundboard/pa rig? That tone stack is only for the line out. So there should not be any effect at all from the tone stack through the speaker out. The only tone control for the speaker out is the treble boost switch. The only volume control for the speaker out is the big main volume knob on the far right.

 

Thanks VERY much for the welcome, and yes, there is a third, rather unusual Heritage in my Christmas stocking!

 

If we can ever go face to face, I'll buy the Chimay! I exchanged emails with the Weber techs and got a better explanation of what the tone stack portion is for. You're right on the money. I long for the days of a good user manual. (yeah, I'm old time) As for the cause of the bad beginnings, still can't be sure, but unless it reoccurs we'll move on from here.

 

Thanks for the notes. Have a Happy New Year and again, thanks!

[212Mavguy]

If we can ever go face to face, I'll buy the Chimay! I exchanged emails with the Weber techs and got a better explanation of what the tone stack portion is for. You're right on the money. I long for the days of a good user manual. (yeah, I'm old time) As for the cause of the bad beginnings, still can't be sure, but unless it reoccurs we'll move on from here.

 

Thanks for the notes. Have a Happy New Year and again, thanks!

 

All right! Saweeeeet! Peace brother, and within the next week let's each have one of those Chimays for ourselves! This thread is done and a happy ending!

[MacDoggie]

All right! Saweeeeet! Peace brother, and within the next week let's each have one of those Chimays for ourselves! This thread is done and a happy ending!

 

Well, not the happy ending yet. I just sent the Mass back to Weber. It quit "attenuating" (?) and was not lowering volume as of Thursday. I do have to say they are very good at responding to my emails the next business day and recognized the device had issues. I'll see how long it takes to get the replacement.

 

Nothing worse than a broken toy during Christmas!!!