Importing Heritage's to the UK...have I found a solution?

[jjkrause84]

Hi all. If you would be so kind I would love to hear your thoughts on this. I am an American living abroad (but without a broad, sadly) and I'd love to get my hands on a 535 but they're difficult to find here and prohibitively expensive. As my family is still in the US could I buy one on eBay have it shipped to my parents' home and then have them ship it to the UK? I checked and the international shipping (thanks to USPS) would only be about $50. SO, if I have this right I could not only import my own 535 one day but I could also do so for British people could I not? My preference would be to import them then put them up on the UK eBay (that way no one has to trust me with fairly substantial amounts of cash) but I would accept "orders" from UK HOC members and charge a small fee for my services.

 

The whole point, to be perfectly frank, would be to help raise money for a Heritage of my own. I would really appreciate it if your guys would offer your opinions on the feasibility of my scheme and even the moral implications.

 

Cheers,

Jon

[Steiner]

Welcome to the first step of entrepreneurialism! If you can be abroad without a broad you certainly can be amoral without... well, you get it.

 

Have at thee!

 

EDIT: got to learn to proofread...

[big bob]

If you buy new you must pay vat. If you buy a guitar for yourself and have your folks send it to you sans the vat no harm really if you get caught. However if you make a business out of it and get caught, ouch!

[SouthpawGuy]

If you buy new you must pay vat. If you buy a guitar for yourself and have your folks send it to you sans the vat no harm really if you get caught. However if you make a business out of it and get caught, ouch!

 

In Ireland VAT is payable on entry, you will not even see the guitar until all duties and taxes are paid. If the item is from outside of Europe and VAT has never been paid on it you get to pay the VAT even if the item is used. I imagine the same would happen in the UK. By the way VAT is also paid on the shipping costs, about $110 to Ireland.

As I'm left handed I just can't get these instruments in Europe, never mind Ireland or the UK

[pegleg32]

Take into accout the extra expense and go for it. If you can add value for Heritage purchasers in the UK (lower prices), why wouldn't you want to.

[jjkrause84]

In Ireland VAT is payable on entry, you will not even see the guitar until all duties and taxes are paid. If the item is from outside of Europe and VAT has never been paid on it you get to pay the VAT even if the item is used. I imagine the same would happen in the UK. By the way VAT is also paid on the shipping costs, about $110 to Ireland.

As I'm left handed I just can't get these instruments in Europe, never mind Ireland or the UK

 

This seems to be the big hangup for me. Can they force me to pay VAT on what can, for all intensive purposes, be a gift from my folks? How would Gordon Brown know that I was planning on selling it? Heck, how would a price even be assessed on it? I know I'd have to pay VAT on shipping but 15% on 50 - 100 dollars isn't THAT bad in the end.

 

I have no intention of seeing a major turnover...maybe one or two guitars a month max....so getting caught running a "business" would not concern me as I would be playing the axe while I wait for it to sell so it would be, essentially, the same as if I bought a bunch of guitars and just didn't like'em (like Brent? ).

 

So....you want me to find you a lefty Heritage?

[SouthpawGuy]

This seems to be the big hangup for me. Can they force me to pay VAT on what can, for all intensive purposes, be a gift from my folks? How would Gordon Brown know that I was planning on selling it? Heck, how would a price even be assessed on it? I know I'd have to pay VAT on shipping but 15% on 50 - 100 dollars isn't THAT bad in the end.

 

I have no intention of seeing a major turnover...maybe one or two guitars a month max....so getting caught running a "business" would not concern me as I would be playing the axe while I wait for it to sell so it would be, essentially, the same as if I bought a bunch of guitars and just didn't like'em (like Brent? ).

 

So....you want me to find you a lefty Heritage?

 

I don't think customs care who the item is from, they just need to know its value and charge accordingly. I have read on other forums that customs in Italy will ask for Ebay listings and paypal evidence re the value of the item. If you leave it to them to decide the value of an item be prepared for the worst.

 

As for lefties well lets just say I'm covered

[jjkrause84]

Hmmm....so if I left a guitar in CA and shipped it to myself I would have to pay VAT on a guitar I might've owned for a decade!? That doesn't sound right. Lemme see if I can't find something online.

[jjkrause84]

Found this:

 

"If someone sends you a gift from abroad that is over £36 in value, you will also be obliged to pay the Duty and VAT unless the person who sent it has agreed to pay it themselves."

 

 

.....Bugger. I guess there goes that idea.

 

Now I'm in a quandry....if I do get a Heritage I'll have to wait until I go home or someone I know is coming over here. That could be months! Grrrrr......dang taxes!

[Ray]

You may not have to pay VAT (Valued Added Tax)/Sales Tax in the UK for gifts. But imports are subject to tax.

[conorb]

In Ireland VAT is payable on entry, you will not even see the guitar until all duties and taxes are paid. If the item is from outside of Europe and VAT has never been paid on it you get to pay the VAT even if the item is used. I imagine the same would happen in the UK. By the way VAT is also paid on the shipping costs, about $110 to Ireland.

As I'm left handed I just can't get these instruments in Europe, never mind Ireland or the UK

 

I just want to chime in here and agree with this. I lived in Ireland for six months several years ago and even with stuff you have shipped over there that you've purchased there will be a vat charge coming into the country. When I was there we had to keep receipts on everything that we bought there that we wanted to take home. As we were leaving (at the Dublin Airport) we could fill out forms and get a vat reimbursement - but it would be mailed to us after everything had cleared customs and was "checked out." I would hesitate to do it again.

 

It's going to be difficult to have someone ship you something - like a guitar - and not pay vat on it. I've recently shipped a couple of bicycles - one to England and one to Singapore and to be properly insured they need to be declared at full value (for customs export duties as well). Once they go through customs and the vat is paid on the receiving end then the items are released.

 

I've seen guys sell a watch (Rolex, Panerai, IWC) and send it overseas declaring it a a "gift, $10.00" to try and avoid vat/duties but to me the risk it too great (lost/stolen/damaged) and it's not legal either. If the watch shows up as damaged and someone wants to collect 3 grand on their 10.00 dollar gift there will be a lot of explaining to do. Declaring something as big as a guitar box as "gift 10.00" is not recommended.

 

If you undertake such an endeavor as importing guitars for resell it's definitely possible and it would be financially reasonable given the relative strength of the Pound or Euro versus the Dollar. I would do some very extensive research though into custom duties and vat costs along with proper insurance before setting up a delivery channel.

 

conorb

[mark555]

Here's some words of wisdom for you, I have been involved in importing furniture from Germany and can tell you some factual information.

 

First of all, if you import anything into the UK, you pay VAT (Value Added Tax) at 17.5%. If you become VAT reistered, which once you turn over a certain figure a year, I do not know what that sum is, but importing two Heritage guitars a month may well take you to that level, three a month definitely would because they are high value products. However, if you do become VAT registered, you can claim the VAT back every quarter, but then you have to add VAT to your customers purchase.

 

I recently bought two Seymour Duncan 59s used from America for $40 (£22 ) each, having bought them on ebay USA, had them delivered to my family in America, the plan being my daughters would bring them home in their luggage. they brought one home without any problem, However, they left one and that had to be posted. HM Customs and Excise (VAT) picked up on it on entry and would not let me have the pick up until I had paid £13 VAT on it. Now as you know, £13 is far more than 17.5% of £22.

 

The VAT Inspector has more power than any other officer of the crown, and if they think that you not declared money, they can and will estimate what they think you have been doing without their knowledge and you will have to pay that money, they are merciless.....

 

To take an item such as a guitar out and into the country without paying any VAT or import tax on it, you need a document of proof of ownership called a Carnet, But what you have to realise is that just because you actually paid (for example) $750 for a guitar in the USA, if the VAT inspector at Customs and Excise thinks you are not being truthfull, even if you are, your tax will be set at a higher level and there is nothing you can do about it.

 

Peteraltongreen, a newer member of our forum, bought a stunning Gibson 335 in San Fransisco back in the early eighties and needed to bring it back into the country (England). He had the receipts from the store he bought it at, having negotiated a good deal on the instrument. Upon returning to England, he declared the guitar at Customs, showing the receipts and appropriate documents. However, the official at Customs and Excise would not accept the receipts as proof of purchase and would not believe that Pete had only paid the sum on the paperwork and upped the import duty to what he, (the official) believed was correct. Pete had no option but to pay the sum - it was much much higher than it actually and in all honesty was.

 

So there you have it, it is up to you, if you want to do it, good luck, personally I would not unless I could buy the guitars at way below value in the first place, as to sell them on for a profit, you need to buy at below market value. Guys like me in the UK either wait a long time for them to turn up or bring them in ourselves, as Paul ('southpawguy') does so in Ireland.

 

The reason I would give you for not doing this, is the VAT inspector. They are HORRENDOUS to deal with. And with 24 guitars a year (based on your two a month) coming through customs to one address, they will define you as a business, even if you are not, and they will hit you for the money.

[mark555]

By the way, I do not see any moral implications at all, if you want to deal a few guitars to earn a few bucks to pay for your own Heritage, we all have to earn our extras one way or another.

[jjkrause84]

Hmmm...alright.

 

I still hope to buy a Heritage eac htime I go home to help pay for the plane ticket to see my family but, yeah....it looks like my master plan won't work so well.

[cod65]

I also would question the postage around 50$- I would think you would want to pack thes things REALLY well, and when I pack an archtop really well here for domestic shipping, it costs about 55-65$.

[jerrysleftyguitars]

I ship to the UK all the time by USPS and Fedex. USPS is usually around $100 and Fedex $220 to $240 for electrics. USPS will only insure for $650 to the UK. Fedex, any amount your willing to pay for.

[Martin59]

Hi,

I am from the Netherlands and we also have to pay customs charges for anything inported outside of the EU. The charge depends on the type of guitar (accoustic / electric) and is somewhere about 3,5 - 4 %. VAT for us is 19%.

Also keep in mind that charges are calculated including transport and insurance cost.

So add the transport & insurance to the price you pay for the guitar, multiply with the applicable charges and then ask yourself if it's an interesting pcice you'll have to ask for it.