575 Fixed! How to intonate a 575

[Kuz]

Well, the 575 was frustrating me. The intonation was off more than I know it should have been. SO I took her to my well respected Luthier in Columbus OH.

 

I told him I wanted the action no higher than 4/64ths and to do a general set up, replacing the bridge if necessary. Well this Luthier has made guitars for Leo Kotte to James Hatfield. Total trust.

 

Almost 2 weeks later they tell me the guitar is ready and they had to get a new compensated bridge from a supplier they use in Japan (Goto?). Well the bridge looked AMAZING. Rosewood bridge and base, gold thumb wheels, ect.

 

I get her home, opened the case, picked her up, and I was so MAD I WAS SHAKING!!!! The ASSH*LE set the action at 6/64ths and instead of loosening the strings between moving the bridge to intonate, he just slid the bridge all over the top. This left surface scratches all over the top. He claimed they were already there, but I completely polished the guitar BEFORE giving her to him.

 

So I took the bridge off and spent all night yesterday with the VIRTUOSO cleaner & polish trying (and mostly successful) to buff out the scratches.

 

I put the bridge back on, lowered the action to WHERE I WANTED IT, moved the bridge a couple times (after detuning the strings) and INCREDIBLY she intonates very well.

 

MORAL OF THE STORY: 1. Get the right bridge for the right guitar 2. Make sure the bridge is straight up when strung to tension 3. IF YOU CAN DO IT YOURSELF, ONLY YOU WILL DO IT THE WAY YOU WANT IT!!!!!! 4. I learned a $100 lesson and this luthier lost a customer!

 

Best,

 

John

[chico]

Wow, you should've called this thread how NOT to intonate at 575..

 

anyway, best of luck, sounds like you are back on track with it.

[Kuz]

Wow, you should've called this thread how NOT to intonate at 575..

 

anyway, best of luck, sounds like you are back on track with it.

 

Oh, yea she is 100% fixed now, plus some surface scratches.

[big bob]

Oh, yea she is 100% fixed now, plus some surface scratches.

 

 

Kuz you can do this, use a little rubbing compound, do not press hard, wax on wax off. then buff. they will be gone

[iim7v7im7]

John,

 

Sorry to hear about your bad experience.

 

I believe I know who you used and they are an established luthier. So I can see why you entrusted them. You are right that they should have backed off the tension before sliding. Particularly considering some of the Heritage bridges where the steel posts go through and can touch the sound board. I actually watched Phil Jacoby (Philtone) do exactly what you suggested when setting up my Sweet 16. There are good luthiers out there, but there are many who either know how to do it right and don't care OR don't know what they are doing. I am glad you where able to get our the scratches and get it to play the way you wanted it to.

 

Since they did not get the job "right", try taking a thin sheet of paper and see if they matched the base contour of the bridge to the crown of your sound board. Under tension, there should be no clearance. This makes a big difference in tone. Phil spent 1 hour on mine getting it perfect (a true craftsman).

 

Best,

 

Bob

 

Well, the 575 was frustrating me. The intonation was off more than I know it should have been. SO I took her to my well respected Luthier in Columbus OH.

 

I told him I wanted the action no higher than 4/64ths and to do a general set up, replacing the bridge if necessary. Well this Luthier has made guitars for Leo Kotte to James Hatfield. Total trust.

 

Almost 2 weeks later they tell me the guitar is ready and they had to get a new compensated bridge from a supplier they use in Japan (Goto?). Well the bridge looked AMAZING. Rosewood bridge and base, gold thumb wheels, ect.

 

I get her home, opened the case, picked her up, and I was so MAD I WAS SHAKING!!!! The ASSH*LE set the action at 6/64ths and instead of loosening the strings between moving the bridge to intonate, he just slid the bridge all over the top. This left surface scratches all over the top. He claimed they were already there, but I completely polished the guitar BEFORE giving her to him.

 

So I took the bridge off and spent all night yesterday with the VIRTUOSO cleaner & polish trying (and mostly successful) to buff out the scratches.

 

I put the bridge back on, lowered the action to WHERE I WANTED IT, moved the bridge a couple times (after detuning the strings) and INCREDIBLY she intonates very well.

 

MORAL OF THE STORY: 1. Get the right bridge for the right guitar 2. Make sure the bridge is straight up when strung to tension 3. IF YOU CAN DO IT YOURSELF, ONLY YOU WILL DO IT THE WAY YOU WANT IT!!!!!! 4. I learned a $100 lesson and this luthier lost a customer!

 

Best,

 

John

[iim7v7im7]

Deleted duplicate posting...sorry

 

Well, the 575 was frustrating me. The intonation was off more than I know it should have been. SO I took her to my well respected Luthier in Columbus OH.

 

I told him I wanted the action no higher than 4/64ths and to do a general set up, replacing the bridge if necessary. Well this Luthier has made guitars for Leo Kotte to James Hatfield. Total trust.

 

Almost 2 weeks later they tell me the guitar is ready and they had to get a new compensated bridge from a supplier they use in Japan (Goto?). Well the bridge looked AMAZING. Rosewood bridge and base, gold thumb wheels, ect.

 

I get her home, opened the case, picked her up, and I was so MAD I WAS SHAKING!!!! The ASSH*LE set the action at 6/64ths and instead of loosening the strings between moving the bridge to intonate, he just slid the bridge all over the top. This left surface scratches all over the top. He claimed they were already there, but I completely polished the guitar BEFORE giving her to him.

 

So I took the bridge off and spent all night yesterday with the VIRTUOSO cleaner & polish trying (and mostly successful) to buff out the scratches.

 

I put the bridge back on, lowered the action to WHERE I WANTED IT, moved the bridge a couple times (after detuning the strings) and INCREDIBLY she intonates very well.

 

MORAL OF THE STORY: 1. Get the right bridge for the right guitar 2. Make sure the bridge is straight up when strung to tension 3. IF YOU CAN DO IT YOURSELF, ONLY YOU WILL DO IT THE WAY YOU WANT IT!!!!!! 4. I learned a $100 lesson and this luthier lost a customer!

 

Best,

 

John

[Kuz]

John,

 

Sorry to hear about your bad experience.

 

I believe I know who you used and they are an established luthier. So I can see why you entrusted them. You are right that they should have backed off the tension before sliding. Particularly considering some of the Heritage bridges where the steel posts go through and can touch the sound board. I actually watched Phil Jacoby (Philtone) do exactly what you suggested when setting up my Sweet 16. There are good luthiers out there, but there are many who either know how to do it right and don't care OR don't know what they are doing. I am glad you where able to get our the scratches and get it to play the way you wanted it to.

 

Since they did not get the job "right", try taking a thin sheet of paper and see if they matched the base contour of the bridge to the crown of your sound board. Under tension, there should be no clearance. This makes a big difference in tone. Phil spent 1 hour on mine getting it perfect (a true craftsman).

 

Best,

 

Bob

 

Bob,

 

Yes the new bridge plate matches perfectly with the top. I am wondering if they sanded the the bottom of the bridge plate WHILE IT WAS ON the guitar?

 

They did fix the problem, but I could have done what they did if I had the new bridge,

 

I had to lower the action and adjust the bridge when I got home.

 

One interested thing was they used "compound strings" 12-54s. They are supposed to feel like flat wounds, but sound like round wounds, and have much less tension than a normal set of 12-54s.

 

I may go with the GB round wounds later.

 

I really think this luthier was just too busy and did a quick hack job with out reading the order form correctly. I have used him for 10 years and never have i seen anything like this before. But he is getting older and set in his ways (you know the old specs for archtops are SUPPOSED to be 6/64s 6th & 4/64s 1st, ect...)

 

John

[iim7v7im7]

Yes the new bridge plate matches perfectly with the top. I am wondering if they sanded the the bottom of the bridge plate WHILE IT WAS ON the guitar?

 

That is exactly how it is done.

 

A luthier will tape some 220 sand paper and some 320 sand paper to finish directly onto the instrumensts soundboard (abrasive up naturally). This is the best way to match the exact contour of the sound board. He used the light adhesive scotch painters tape (blue stuff) to adhere it to the sound board.

 

The problem with having the steel post go all the way through to the underside of the bridge. Steel and ebony or rosewood have very different hardness and abrade at different rates. Phil actually had to work on the underside of the two posts with mini wrasps tomake sure that they were slightly inset from the crown of the wood to ensure a perfect fit.

 

Its funny, I actually prefer a slightly higher action on my archtop. My Tele is set up at 4/64th, but my arch top I prefer 5/64 on the low E and 4/64 on high E string because I use heavier strings and have different neck relief.

 

Let me know how you like the GBs, they are great strings. I haven't been able to play all week because we got a new puppy in the house who is still sensitive to sound (my old 14 year old was deaf...a perfect audience!).

[Kuz]

Actually the bottom of this bridge plate doesn't have the metal screws coming through (but I know what you mean, I had one like that before).

 

I also kind of knew about sanding the plate on the guitar, but I think he must have either not taped the sandpaper down, or went past the sandpaper on to the sound board.

 

I like low action on all my guitars.

 

I go 3.5-4/64ths on my Heritages, McInturff, & PRSi guitars and 4/64ths on my Kirn Tele.

 

Bob, you would probably also like to know that I am taking your advice and have a guitar Plek'd on Monday. It is the Kirn Tele so I can get action to the same height as my Heritages. We have a new luthier Plek'ing in Granville, OH. That's just over an hour away. Great resource to have local and I can wait on the guitar instead of shipping!!!!

[brentrocks]

Damm...im sorry that happened....but it could have been worse, i suppose?

[Dick Seacup]

Was there something wrong with the factory bridge? I've always thought those wood bridges with the compensation carved in to them looked like the cat's pajamas on archtops.

[Kuz]

Was there something wrong with the factory bridge? I've always thought those wood bridges with the compensation carved in to them looked like the cat's pajamas on archtops.

 

Well, I don't know if there was a problem or not. Ren actually agreed to send me a tune-a-matic, have me set the intonation, and then he would make me a wooden one to match.

 

The wooden bridges on the 575s are different then the other wooden bridges for the Sw16s, Golden Eagles, ect. I don't know why, maybe because of the shorter scale length of the 575.

 

The bridge I got from the luthier looks very very similiar to the original, only the compensation isn't as drastic. Honestly, you couldn't tell the difference unless you knew what to look for.

 

Everything is good now.

[Dick Seacup]

Everything is good now.

 

That's what counts. I was going to ask if the original was one of the ones with the tuna-magic bridge on top of the wood base or not. I've seen one or two high-end archtops sporting those and I always think, "Why?" Seems like a travesty to plunk a chunk of metal on like that, to me anyway.

[Ray]

Kuz, sorry to hear about the ordeal you went through with your guitar, but happy to learn that things are alright now. These things happen sometimes.

[FredZepp]

It's great to hear that all is now well with that stunning guitar, Kuz.

 

Although you had to put some effort into it to get it there, our boys at the zoo were, of course, eager to make sure that all worked out well.

And what a Heritage you have... a beautiful thing.

[Kuz]

Thanks for the kind words everyone. It truly is a magnificent piece of art!

[iim7v7im7]

Actually the bottom of this bridge plate doesn't have the metal screws coming through (but I know what you mean, I had one like that before).

 

I also kind of knew about sanding the plate on the guitar, but I think he must have either not taped the sandpaper down, or went past the sandpaper on to the sound board.

 

I like low action on all my guitars.

 

I go 3.5-4/64ths on my Heritages, McInturff, & PRSi guitars and 4/64ths on my Kirn Tele.

 

Bob, you would probably also like to know that I am taking your advice and have a guitar Plek'd on Monday. It is the Kirn Tele so I can get action to the same height as my Heritages. We have a new luthier Plek'ing in Granville, OH. That's just over an hour away. Great resource to have local and I can wait on the guitar instead of shipping!!!!

 

 

See if they will allow you to watch the process. It is truly amazing. Also don't be surprised if after a scan, your Kirn does not need pleking!

 

The reason I drove to Baltimore (3 hrs.) was because, like yourself; I did not want to ship my instruments. There where 2 places closer to me, but Phil had such a great reputation and had worked on a buddies instrument before. I will likely return this year to have my Martin and Valley Arts done as well. I think you will be amazed with the feel.

 

:-)

[TalismanRich]

I don't know about 6/64s. Seems high to me.

 

I remember Ren saying all Heritages are supposed to leave the factory at 3 & 5, or as he put it, a nickel and a quarter.

 

I recently had my H157 redone, including some nut and fret edge work done. It took a while, but it sure plays nice now, plus the intonation is spot on.

(Thanks, Steilbergs)

 

 

The 535 needs some tweaking. I finally bought the Dan Erlewine guitar setup book, so I'm going to try to do it myself this time.

[brentrocks]

Given those stats....my guitars may be a lil high on the action, but i dont seem to mind. not like im gigging or anything.

[Kuz]

I play for hours with the action on my Heritages, and all of them are under 4/64s with ZERO buzzing.

 

ALL of my Fender (and Kirn) long scale guitars have buzzed even at 5/64ths so this Plek dude said that 4/64th will be easy after the process is done.

 

And thanks again Bob for the recommendation for using the Plek and yes I have been invited (and I accepted) to watch the whole process.

[Spectrum13]

Kuz,

 

How does the 575 differ from your old sweet 16 and did you change out the pots and caps?

[Kuz]

Kuz,

 

How does the 575 differ from your old sweet 16 and did you change out the pots and caps?

 

Well tonally I feel the Sw16 is probably a little (slightly) warmer but the shorter scale of the 575 makes it smooth and jazzy too.

 

I really like that the 575 is slightly smaller and I can play it with a strap on standing up. The 575 kind allows for a more blues attitude, because it is smaller.

 

To be honest I wish I had both, but the 575 is kind of more suited for what I want to do: bluesy jazz nonsense!

[tyguy]

Well, the 575 was frustrating me. The intonation was off more than I know it should have been. SO I took her to my well respected Luthier in Columbus OH.

 

I told him I wanted the action no higher than 4/64ths and to do a general set up, replacing the bridge if necessary. Well this Luthier has made guitars for Leo Kotte to James Hatfield. Total trust.

 

Almost 2 weeks later they tell me the guitar is ready and they had to get a new compensated bridge from a supplier they use in Japan (Goto?). Well the bridge looked AMAZING. Rosewood bridge and base, gold thumb wheels, ect.

 

I get her home, opened the case, picked her up, and I was so MAD I WAS SHAKING!!!! The ASSH*LE set the action at 6/64ths and instead of loosening the strings between moving the bridge to intonate, he just slid the bridge all over the top. This left surface scratches all over the top. He claimed they were already there, but I completely polished the guitar BEFORE giving her to him.

 

So I took the bridge off and spent all night yesterday with the VIRTUOSO cleaner & polish trying (and mostly successful) to buff out the scratches.

 

I put the bridge back on, lowered the action to WHERE I WANTED IT, moved the bridge a couple times (after detuning the strings) and INCREDIBLY she intonates very well.

 

MORAL OF THE STORY: 1. Get the right bridge for the right guitar 2. Make sure the bridge is straight up when strung to tension 3. IF YOU CAN DO IT YOURSELF, ONLY YOU WILL DO IT THE WAY YOU WANT IT!!!!!! 4. I learned a $100 lesson and this luthier lost a customer!

 

Best,

 

John

This kind of crap happened to me to the tune of $800.00.Wanted my Es175 refinished,refretted,new inlays etc..Big mistake.He ruined the guitar.Put original nut back on and it was sticking out 1/16".He slimmed the neck down to his build spec(He makes guitars).What a mess.This is why I learned to do it all myself.I couldn't mess up that bad on purpose. Ty M.