Can I Hurt My Fender Twin

[peacemaker]

Guitar is my primary instrument. Specifically, my 575 is my primary instrument. (Thanks Jazzpunk!) But I've been asked to sit in on bass for a church this weekend. They're more or less a rock style. I've heard of people playing bass through Fender Twins before, but I've always been a little afraid to do it myself . . . especially since my Twin is of the 1970-is vintage (silver face) and I've had it black faced by a great amp guy in Virginia. Aside from the caps and tubes he replaced, everything on it is as it was when it was new. In other words, those Fender Special Design speakers are older than I am and I'm a little concerned about putting serious low frequencies through them.

 

It's the only gig-worthy amp I've got, so my only other alternative is to run the bass straight to the board and rely on the sound engineer to feed me enough of what I need in the floor wedges. But, if the alternative means risking injury to my precious, fat-toned Twin (known affectionately as "Nessie" ) I'll take my chances with an unknown room, sound system, engineer, etc.

 

In the short time I've been on the forum here, it's clear that y'all are a bunch of experienced, knowledgeable musicians. What do you think?

[Steiner]

Unless you're rocking the cross off the wall, the amp (speakers) should be able to handle the task at hand. The real question is: does a bass sound good through the twin?

[talt111]

Guitar is my primary instrument. Specifically, my 575 is my primary instrument. (Thanks Jazzpunk!) But I've been asked to sit in on bass for a church this weekend. They're more or less a rock style. I've heard of people playing bass through Fender Twins before, but I've always been a little afraid to do it myself . . . especially since my Twin is of the 1970-is vintage (silver face) and I've had it black faced by a great amp guy in Virginia. Aside from the caps and tubes he replaced, everything on it is as it was when it was new. In other words, those Fender Special Design speakers are older than I am and I'm a little concerned about putting serious low frequencies through them.

 

It's the only gig-worthy amp I've got, so my only other alternative is to run the bass straight to the board and rely on the sound engineer to feed me enough of what I need in the floor wedges. But, if the alternative means risking injury to my precious, fat-toned Twin (known affectionately as "Nessie" ) I'll take my chances with an unknown room, sound system, engineer, etc.

 

In the short time I've been on the forum here, it's clear that y'all are a bunch of experienced, knowledgeable musicians. What do you think?

[talt111]

I wrote to Fender about this very issue some time back but using a Fender hot rod.

 

Got no reply!

 

Tried it and was ok but kept volume down

[smurph1]

What they said... Volume would be my main concern..But hopefully in a church you aren't playing too loud..

[peacemaker]

Thanks for the responses guys. Feel free to keep the advice coming . . .

 

The real question is: does a bass sound good through the twin?

 

Well . . . with a borrowed Yamaha bass . . . sound comes out.

[pushover]

I don't claim to be an expert on anything, but the issues seem to be (a) basses need significantly more watts than guitars do to get the same volume, so you'll push the amp more playing bass than you would playing guitar, and ( b ) the frequencies produced by the bass are really gonna drive the speaker much more than the frequencies of the guitar.

 

Many people use amps like my Music Man HD130 for tripple duty (guitar, keyboards, bass) but it's got plenty of power to put out. All in all I'm sure you're o.k. doing it, just don't push it too much, or do it too frequently. Let us know how it works out for you..

[High Flying Bird]

Unless you're rocking the cross off the wall......

 

Is there any other way?

[peacemaker]

So, plugging straight in I was finally able to tweak the amp/guitar to get a decent tone. Then I ran some compression and EQ that really focused the tone and seriously fattened up the bottom. In fact, it got thumpy enough that I got concerned about the amp and decided not to run it. I went through the compression, EQ, digital head/cab sim, and direct to the board. Oh well . . .

 

In rehearsal, I could hear well enough, but as is often the case, when the critical time came I couldn't hear anything I really needed to. It may have been better to run the amp . . . but I was honestly worried about damaging it. We were running something like 90-95db (very nearly "rocking the cross off the wall"!!) and to be able to get the amp loud enough in that mix would have put more stress on it than I cared to--even if I split the signal and only used it for stage fill. If I started playing bass regularly, I feel like I would really NEED one of those 4x10, 300w rigs I always think are so over the top . . .

 

Thanks for the advice guys! Sorry for the slightly off-topic thread . . .

[mars_hall]

So, plugging straight in I was finally able to tweak the amp/guitar to get a decent tone. Then I ran some compression and EQ that really focused the tone and seriously fattened up the bottom. In fact, it got thumpy enough that I got concerned about the amp and decided not to run it. I went through the compression, EQ, digital head/cab sim, and direct to the board. Oh well . . .

 

In rehearsal, I could hear well enough, but as is often the case, when the critical time came I couldn't hear anything I really needed to. It may have been better to run the amp . . . but I was honestly worried about damaging it. We were running something like 90-95db (very nearly "rocking the cross off the wall"!!) and to be able to get the amp loud enough in that mix would have put more stress on it than I cared to--even if I split the signal and only used it for stage fill. If I started playing bass regularly, I feel like I would really NEED one of those 4x10, 300w rigs I always think are so over the top . . .

 

Thanks for the advice guys! Sorry for the slightly off-topic thread . . .

 

The amp itself should cover your needs. Just build/buy a speaker cabinet with a couple of 15 inch speakers, disconnect the 12s in the twin, and you're home at less cost

[JeffB]

. If I started playing bass regularly, I feel like I would really NEED one of those 4x10, 300w rigs I always think are so over the top . . .

I havent played with a bass player who has used anything less for gigs. 300w is not over the top at all imho. Its not about volume its about clarity, punch and headroom. The last 2 bass players Ive played with have used 600 and 750w rigs but have not dominated the mix. They did have a nice presence in it though.

The guy with the 600w used a 150w head for a long time and every time we talk about his gear he mentions how he feels like he ripped him self off for so long and how he can now get the dynamics he didnt know existed.

[Steiner]

I havent played with a bass player who has used anything less for gigs. 300w is not over the top at all imho. Its not about volume its about clarity, punch and headroom. The last 2 bass players Ive played with have used 600 and 750w rigs but have not dominated the mix. They did have a nice presence in it though.

The guy with the 600w used a 150w head for a long time and every time we talk about his gear he mentions how he feels like he ripped him self off for so long and how he can now get the dynamics he didnt know existed.

 

Tully - you're talking 700W Solid State, aren't you?

 

The most powerful Ampeg I have seen had 8 to 12 6L6s which should put it at 200 - 300 Watts range.

[JeffB]

Tully - you're talking 700W Solid State, aren't you?

 

The most powerful Ampeg I have seen had 8 to 12 6L6s which should put it at 200 - 300 Watts range.

Mesa Big Block (750w)(550@4ohms)and Warwick Tube Path 10:1(1000w not 600w I thought) Neither true all tube. But both big and clear sounding. The mesa nearly killed me when I walked in front of it once. I bent down in front of it to pick up a lead at the same moment that the bass player decided to turn it on for the first time. Everything went silent after the initial explosion. The vol knob got bumped and he didnt check before arcing up. I had a high pitched scream going on in my head for months.(as if there wasnt already enough voices)

But the clarity and warmth is what strikes me about both rigs. even at low volume. But Im only a guitar player, what would I know.

[bolero]

problem playing bass thru a twin is not the amp but the speakers...gtr speakers won't handle the bass frequencies at louder ( ie: gig ) volumes & can rip by the surround, as the cones need 2" of travel; gtr speakers usually have 1-1.5" travel

 

I've used a twin for gtr+bass at very low practice volumes but wouldn't play with a drummer

 

 

 

if you're looking for a great sounding tube bass amp for cheap I would get a traynor YBA3 custom special...they can be had for <$500 and 150w of tube power is plenty

 

I had a 300w ampeg SVT & it was truly a beast...plenty of volume & punch, & sounded great thru the 9x10 cab

 

sold it after the vintage Traynor passed the acid test....I have an 8x10 Traynor cab to go with it, I never really need to mic it as it's loud enough with the band in a club

 

I have also seen ampeg V4B 100w heads used with a small 4x10 cab live, they sound great as well

 

also there is no reason why a twin with an external 4x10 or 15" cab wouldn't do the trick, might be a cheap way to get a bass amp if you don't need it for gtr at the same time?

[smurph1]

Don't know how this fits into the conversation but here goes.. My Old tube Bassman says 50 watts on the back of it..Here's the kicker, I was able to keep up with a drummer and two guitar players volume wise..Wierd huh? Never had to mic it either..

[TalismanRich]

if you're looking for a great sounding tube bass amp for cheap I would get a traynor YBA3 custom special...they can be had for <$500 and 150w of tube power is plenty

 

The YBA3 is a killer bass amp. And the YBA1 makes a rocking guitar amp as well as a decent bass amp. Something about being a clone of some "Bassman" circuit I think!

[rjsanders]

i use a '64 showman for bass, same circuit as your twin. rarely push it past "4" with a loud blues-rock outfit. for the twin i'd mike it & control the EQ at the P.A.

 

but you should get a decent bass sound with the amp's speakers, regardless of make & model, below 4...

 

(imho)

[hiro]

Yep I agree. Don't play a bass guitar through a guitar amp. Some people can get away if they don't put anything above 3 . . . but

 

My friend's nephews and nieces are in highschool. They have a band, but they want their younger sister who seems to love the guitar, but in reality she has a knack for bass. She's a newb to bass but thumped out some good lines, better than guitar. The girl is in denial and its like that Adam Sandler movie where he's talented in golf but thinks he's a hockey player.

 

 

Anyways the my friend buys a new Ibanez bass (its a nice neck thru one) for the family, their order gets screwed up, and they have 3 ibanez' for the price of 2. My pal in his gaseous moment decides to quit while he's ahead.

 

Enter my new peavey delta blues. My beloved amp, all shiny and bright. I'm jamming (trying to figure out this electric stuff lol, flamenco strums sound weird on the 150) with my friend.

 

The niece wants to play, my friend waves her ok. Since my amp is up there, The ibanez makes that old school amp buzz when she plugs in. I laugh, because I've heard of it, but the 150 doesn't do that. But like an evil bad guy, its the last . . .

 

The tones are lower than the low E (of course a bass guitar, duh), and after a few runs, it gets muddy and distorted like hollow broken glass being blown in bong water kind of sound.

 

Shimea keeps playing, so I go and turn the amp down to 4 (it was 7's) and it sounds fine. A few minutes later, the bong water glass returns. She stops.

 

When I plug the H150, the peavey is no longer shiny nor bright. No matter what I switch the tone is low hum, and then nothing. (RC) Rick Casey gives me this "Oh shiz!" look.

 

Google quickly reveals our mistake. Talkbass forum hammers in the verdict. You can play a g**tar (yes some of them say g***ar LOL) through a bass amp, but not a bass guitar through a guitar amp. The amp can handle it, but not the speakers. Bass guitar = bass speakers . Two things I can do. Get hopping pissed or hand it over to God (Easter) and count my blessings. I choose the God thing.

 

After all I own and know about Heritage. There's worse: not having a Heritage and even more, not knowing of Heritage.

 

Well the good ending is RC apologized to the point where it got annoying, and I maintain even I didn't know that, he didn't know that . . . Later Tom, one if RC's nephews comes in and upon hearing the case, "Dude everyone knows that. Why diya think they have bass amps." A good laugh . . .

 

But he says the 3rd ibanez bass is on permanent loan to a good cause (mine).

 

And my peavey dealer knew exactly what had happened when he looked inside. "Tore the cone . . . you plugged inna bass?" but he's cool and charged me half for the peavey speaker replacement, sans the labor charge (he says warranty is still good) . He's funny, "I've seen peaveys fall off a stage and (tubes) hot. They still work. Guys drop them, warehouse factory drops from the top stack . . . still work. But a bass guitar in the delta, thats kryptonite man." He said he could sell me peavey bass amp, but said a tube bass amp is best but pricey. The other bass amp he had was an ashdown bass amp, that sounded better than the peaveys and was cheaper.

 

Well at least RC and I know which bass amp to get . . .

[barrymclark]

play the electric upright through the VOX guitar amp all the time. Thing is, I don't play very loud. As other have mentioned, I would be very worried about the speakers if the volume gets up there.

[barrymclark]

play the electric upright through the VOX guitar amp all the time. Thing is, I don't play very loud. As other have mentioned, I would be very worried about the speakers if the volume gets up there.

 

to add... if you are going to play with a group, I would recommend against it. For playing in the bedroom at VERY low volumes as I do, then that should be ok.

 

 

...unless you have a MiniBrute IV. Then have at it.

[ingeneri]

I ran both myself and my bassist through my Fender Deluxe Reverb without issues during my yearlong weekend jazz brunch gig (RIP). No problems, but he plays upright, was plugged into the low gain input, and the volume never went above 2 on his channel (or 3 for mine). But, I wouldn't do it with any speakers smaller than 12" or with a drummer.

 

When we do quartet/quintet gigs, he plays through the PA the used for miking the piano.

[pegleg32]

I learned a couple of things from this thread. Thanks guys.

[peacemaker]

I learned a couple of things from this thread. Thanks guys.

 

. . . as did I!

 

Hiro, sorry to hear about that little shenanigan! Not a story I will soon forget . . . and I will certainly keep my vintage Twin away from the bass!!