If I wanted a 1959 Les Paul, but would rather own a Heritage..

[daiku]

I am a newbie to Heritage, still looking to acquire one, so please be gentle. If I wanted the famous holy grail of Gibson instruments, but couldn't afford the million dollars or whatever ridiculous sums they are asking, what should I get as a Heritage instrument? I really don't like Gibson as a company anymore, so I have no interest in spending some ridiculous money for an instrument of low quality control.

 

What I am really after is a guitar like Mr. Page or Clapton would have used back in the day, but with great sustain. If you were to assemble such a thing, what would you get, or what would be close to that? A stock Heritage H 150? a 157? would it be more cost effective to order a stock instrument and change out the PU's? Would you order a custom from Heritage? a Alex Skolnick?

 

For those who are more familiar with Les Paul's than I, how would you approach this? I know lot's of folks here are Jazz oriented, and I have seen some of those beautiful axes, but rock and blues is my interest.

 

thanks for your help, and looking forward to buying a quality instrument made by Heritage. Looking forward to your responses.

[golferwave]

I would order an H-150CM (I own several and they're superb) which is the equivalent to a LP Standard. If you wish for a new one you can order from Heritage through a dealer to get exactly what you want. If I were to order one to be as close to a 59 or 60 LP I would order the H-150CM in Vintageburst with a bone nut, tonepros bridge and lightweight tailpiece, RS wiring upgrade kit with Sprague or grey tiger paper in oil capacitors and either Throbak PAF pickups or Tom Short Tombuckers. Check out these pickup websites as the Throbaks are wound on the same machines as the original PAF's were. Tuning machines could be Grovers or Klusons but Sperzels or Schallers are also available. Brent (Brentrocks) recently did a custom order and he took them the pickups he wanted installed so you may have to do that if you want the Throbak or Short pups (chime in here Brent). Anyway, good luck on your venture to true vintage tone and keep us posted.

[yoslate]

I would order an H-150CM (I own several and they're superb) which is the equivalent to a LP Standard. If you wish for a new one you can order from Heritage through a dealer to get exactly what you want. If I were to order one to be as close to a 59 or 60 LP I would order the H-150CM in Vintageburst with a bone nut, tonepros bridge and lightweight tailpiece, RS wiring upgrade kit with Sprague or grey tiger paper in oil capacitors and either Throbak PAF pickups or Tom Short Tombuckers. Check out these pickup websites as the Throbaks are wound on the same machines as the original PAF's were. Tuning machines could be Grovers or Klusons but Sperzels or Schallers are also available. Brent (Brentrocks) recently did a custom order and he took them the pickups he wanted installed so you may have to do that if you want the Throbak or Short pups (chime in here Brent). Anyway, good luck on your venture to true vintage tone and keep us posted.

 

Scott's nailed it for you, daiku. In fact I had a thread, My Grail about the completion of my quest for just such a guitar. I've had the pleasure of playing eight or ten '59's, and this Heritage 150, fifty years of being played notwithstanding, has "it"! And a necessary component is a pair of Tom Short's Marc Ford Tombuckers, a fabulous pickup!

[daiku]

Scott's nailed it for you, daiku. In fact I had a thread, My Grail about the completion of my quest for just such a guitar. I've had the pleasure of playing eight or ten '59's, and this Heritage 150, fifty years of being played notwithstanding, has "it"! And a necessary component is a pair of Tom Short's Marc Ford Tombuckers, a fabulous pickup!

 

Thanks guys for the quick response. In terms of Tuners, which would be the best in terms of quality? What I am after is tone, with the rest quality. Since it isn't a Gibson, being authentic with the pieces isn't critically important.

 

Jim

[daiku]

Thanks guys for the quick response. In terms of Tuners, which would be the best in terms of quality? What I am after is tone, with the rest quality. Since it isn't a Gibson, being authentic with the pieces isn't critically important.

 

Jim

Oh, one more thing to narrow down my quest. What I am after is the sound on the classic Blues Breakers with Eric Clapton. The song, "Have you heard". I will never forget the first time I put that on my turntable. The Solo Sent chills down my spine, and still does. Love the timing, immediacy of the cutting sound, everything! A couple more questions come to mind.

 

I will most likely be playing at lower volume levels into a smaller amp. My playing isn't good enough yet to merit blasting the neighbors with a giant Marshall stack. Would I be better off with mini humbuckers or full size? Also, Bigsby or not?, and the last question. Will Heritage make this for me, spec'd as you described?

 

If I end up doing this, I will be joining you all in August at the Heritage get together, all the way from California! The other important thing for me is that the Maple veneers match (I am a furniture maker, so this is important to me), so I am guessing a Veneer upgrade will be required.

 

I am salivating already!

 

jim

[Spectrum13]

Daiku,

 

What they said.... all I could add would be to go for a MOP headstock. For tuners sperzel are lighter and would not go as dull as the grovers. In 68 I purchased a new gold top and my 2006 150 is at least as good. If you can swing it, order a custom.

[Kuz]

Daiku,

 

What they said.... all I could add would be to go for a MOP headstock. For tuners sperzel are lighter and would not go as dull as the grovers. In 68 I purchased a new gold top and my 2006 150 is at least as good. If you can swing it, order a custom.

 

+1

[golferwave]

Jim, I would go with the Sperzel tuners with pearloid buttons. Full size humbuckers. I've ordered a set of the Tom Short Marc Ford Tombuckers for my newest H-150 as Rob and many of the others here have attested to the fabulous tone. You can order a one piece maple top if you're worried about matching. These aren't veneers but a true maple top about 1/2 inch thick. You can upgrade the top to select flame or quilt. Don't worry about the amp as these sound great through anything. You can upgrade the amp later. If you attend the PSP the guy's will have plenty of great amps available to check out.

[Patrick]

Oh, one more thing to narrow down my quest. What I am after is the sound on the classic Blues Breakers with Eric Clapton. The song, "Have you heard". I will never forget the first time I put that on my turntable. The Solo Sent chills down my spine, and still does. Love the timing, immediacy of the cutting sound, everything! A couple more questions come to mind.

 

I will most likely be playing at lower volume levels into a smaller amp. My playing isn't good enough yet to merit blasting the neighbors with a giant Marshall stack. Would I be better off with mini humbuckers or full size? Also, Bigsby or not?, and the last question. Will Heritage make this for me, spec'd as you described?

 

If I end up doing this, I will be joining you all in August at the Heritage get together, all the way from California! The other important thing for me is that the Maple veneers match (I am a furniture maker, so this is important to me), so I am guessing a Veneer upgrade will be required.

 

I am salivating already!

 

jim

 

Listen "Newbie" firstly;; NOTHING is ever gonna sound like a '59 LP with PAFs. You need to look for a guitar with "the vibe" It's all about the look and the pick ups. Then you gotta have the chops and the touch. If you got the chops and the touch . . . your gonna make a s**t guitar sound like a great guitar. Just look at what Jimmy Page did with some of the junk guitars he played. Most people couldn't even tell when he was playing his burst or his "junk" As for Clapton . . . some of his best tone EVER came from his ES 335. If you can't afford the outrageous price of a real '59 burst (and who can) the closest "vibe" tone and feel you're gonna get is a Heritage 150. Go for the vintage look . . . then experiment with a variety of PAF clones until you get the tone you're looking for. But at the end of the day . . . you could be playing the Brock Burst . . . and if you play like s**t it's gonna sound like s**t

[daiku]

Listen "Newbie" firstly;; NOTHING is ever gonna sound like a '59 LP with PAFs. You need to look for a guitar with "the vibe" It's all about the look and the pick ups. Then you gotta have the chops and the touch. If you got the chops and the touch . . . your gonna make a s**t guitar sound like a great guitar. Just look at what Jimmy Page did with some of the junk guitars he played. Most people couldn't even tell when he was playing his burst or his "junk" As for Clapton . . . some of his best tone EVER came from his ES 335. If you can't afford the outrageous price of a real '59 burst (and who can) the closest "vibe" tone and feel you're gonna get is a Heritage 150. Go for the vintage look . . . then experiment with a variety of PAF clones until you get the tone you're looking for. But at the end of the day . . . you could be playing the Brock Burst . . . and if you play like s**t it's gonna sound like s**t

 

I hear you. I have no illusions. I am 50 years old and finally have some time to practice and dedicate myself to improve my playing. 20 years of 60 hour work weeks have allowed me a little flexibility now to enjoy life and do some of the things I couldn't do when I was younger. I guess I am reverting back to my teens in some ways. I have gotten back to furniture building, my first love, and music. I remember back in the 70's having to sell my Fender Strat and Princeton Reverb to pay tuition. Always regretted it, but we do what we gotta do. Now I got some scratch, and I am going to get some back...

[pegleg32]

I hear you. I have no illusions. I am 50 years old and finally have some time to practice and dedicate myself to improve my playing. 20 years of 60 hour work weeks have allowed me a little flexibility now to enjoy life and do some of the things I couldn't do when I was younger. I guess I am reverting back to my teens in some ways. I have gotten back to furniture building, my first love, and music. I remember back in the 70's having to sell my Fender Strat and Princeton Reverb to pay tuition. Always regretted it, but we do what we gotta do. Now I got some scratch, and I am going to get some back...

 

Hey Daiku, I'm exactly where you are, I retired a couple of years ago, took up the guitar after many years absense and have enjoyed retirement a bunch. I spend lots of time going to blues festivals and such. I now own a Heritage 535 and a Heritage 150 and enjoye both a ton. They are both great blues guitars with their own tone. I can't recommend them highly enough.

[High Flying Bird]

I hear you. I have no illusions. I am 50 years old and finally have some time to practice and dedicate myself to improve my playing. .....Now I got some scratch, and I am going to get some back...

 

More power to you D. I can't think of a better guitar for your purpose than a Heritage. You could go with a used guitar from this web site's "buy and sell" section and get a really good deal or you could cook up exactly what you are looking for and place a custom order.

 

I have Bigsbys on my 535s. I don't use them a lot but they come in handy here and there. I don't have any tuning issues. It is your call.

 

Coming to PSP3 are you? You will have the time of your life.

[brentrocks]

Welcome daiku!

 

here is my Heritage '59...it wasnt a custom order, i just got lucky...lol. its a 20th Anniversary H 150. You should do a custome order my friend!!! Wait times are low, quality is high...and you would be stimulating Heritage's production!

 

Go talk to your local dealer!

 

 

[yoslate]

In terms of Tuners, which would be the best in terms of quality? What I am after is tone, with the rest quality. Since it isn't a Gibson, being authentic with the pieces isn't critically important.

 

Jim

 

My Twentieth Anniversary is the first guitar I've owned with the "tulip" Sperzels. I love them! The have the "vintage vibe," but they are different from the Kluson tulips, and I dig that uniqueness on my Heritage. The keys have a really nice feel, but they are 12:1, as opposed to the Grovers' 18:1 ratio. I actually like the lower ratio....

[brentrocks]

My Twentieth Anniversary is the first guitar I've owned with the "tulip" Sperzels. I love them! The have the "vintage vibe," but they are different from the Kluson tulips, and I dig that uniqueness on my Heritage. The keys have a really nice feel, but they are 12:1, as opposed to the Grovers' 18:1 ratio. I actually like the lower ratio....

 

+1

 

i love the locking Spirzels on my 20th as well!!!

[Kuz]

+1

 

i love the locking Spirzels on my 20th as well!!!

 

Brent your spirzels look like they are locking tuners. Is that an aftermarket fit? I have spirzels on all of my (4) 150s and they are not locking (I actually prefer the non-locking spirzels for my 150s)

 

Anyhow, Brent are your tuners original from the factory locking spirzels?

[Kuz]

My Twentieth Anniversary is the first guitar I've owned with the "tulip" Sperzels. I love them! The have the "vintage vibe," but they are different from the Kluson tulips, and I dig that uniqueness on my Heritage. The keys have a really nice feel, but they are 12:1, as opposed to the Grovers' 18:1 ratio. I actually like the lower ratio....

 

Rob, are your Sperzels locking tuners or the traditional non-locking?

 

My (4) 150s have the non-locking type (which I prefer), but Brent's look like they are locking and I was wondering if all 20th Aniv 150s had locking Sperzels?

[brentrocks]

Brent your spirzels look like they are locking tuners. Is that an aftermarket fit? I have spirzels on all of my (4) 150s and they are not locking (I actually prefer the non-locking spirzels for my 150s)

 

Anyhow, Brent are your tuners original from the factory locking spirzels?

 

The guitar was originally owned by a hired gun studio musician...according to the dealer i bought it from, it is original, so he says

[yoslate]

Rob, are your Sperzels locking tuners or the traditional non-locking?

 

My (4) 150s have the non-locking type (which I prefer), but Brent's look like they are locking and I was wondering if all 20th Aniv 150s had locking Sperzels?

 

 

Mine are non-locking on the Anniversary, John. I have locking Sperzels on my Tele, and they are nice, but certainly not necessary if one re-strings properly.

[GuitArtMan]

I have both the Sperzels and TonePros Klusons. I loved the TonePros Klusons so much I went out and bought them for my Gbrand gitfiddles to replace the stock Klusons. If I had a choice between the Sperzel tulip tuners and TonePros Klusons, I'd go with the TonePros.

[blueox]

"What I am after is the sound on the classic Blues Breakers with Eric Clapton. The song, "Have you heard". I will never forget the first time I put that on my turntable. The Solo Sent chills down my spine, and still does. Love the timing, immediacy of the cutting sound, everything! . . . I will most likely be playing at lower volume levels into a smaller amp. My playing isn't good enough yet to merit blasting the neighbors with a giant Marshall stack. Would I be better off with mini humbuckers or full size? Also, Bigsby or not?, and the last question. Will Heritage make this for me, spec'd as you described? . . . The other important thing for me is that the Maple veneers match (I am a furniture maker, so this is important to me), so I am guessing a Veneer upgrade will be required."

 

Go with full-sized humbuckers and forget the Bigsby tailpiece. Make a custom Heritage order with a special top, as that is important to you. Otherwise, there are a number of H-150s out there, new and used, if you want that "woman tone", and an H-150 will surely do it. Play it through a low-watt tube amp (18 or less), possibly with a master volume, which will allow you to turn it up yet achieve your tone without excessive volume. While I have owned and played vintage guitars, I believe that "vintage" is very often over-hyped, and one would be hard-pressed to surpass the sound and playabilty of a new Heritage. Or another way to put it, vintage is the way to go . . . if Heritage did not exist.

[rjsanders]

welcome, Jim. i'm of similar experience re that Bluesbreakers album & great affection for EC's sound on it in addition to the many suggestions here (esp. practice, touch) you might consider having the RS wiring kit (w/pots & caps) installed w/"'50's wiring". big + on the Sperzel locking tuners. Seymour's Seth Lovers are a good pickup choice, among other mentioned.

 

a big part of the sound is the amp & there's no way you'll get it w/o the amp. opinions vary, but it seems to have been a cranked JTM45 w/5881 power tubes that only put out about 30watts but were absolutely punishing either 2xCelestion Blues or 2xCelestion Greenbacks (i prefer the Blues, but they're d@#n pricey).

 

a pedal that might help w/similar sound at lower vol levels is Menatone Workingman's Blue.

[Hfan]

I hear you. I have no illusions. I am 50 years old and finally have some time to practice and dedicate myself to improve my playing. 20 years of 60 hour work weeks have allowed me a little flexibility now to enjoy life and do some of the things I couldn't do when I was younger. I guess I am reverting back to my teens in some ways. I have gotten back to furniture building, my first love, and music. I remember back in the 70's having to sell my Fender Strat and Princeton Reverb to pay tuition. Always regretted it, but we do what we gotta do. Now I got some scratch, and I am going to get some back...

Good for you daiku, I did something similar regarding picking up guitar again later in life after having quit for a long time. For the Les Paul experience, I'd go with the 150 CM as has been recommended. You may like the 535 as well (equivalent to A Gibbon 335). I also had a few old Strats back in the 70's..I wound buying a G&L Legacy to cover that area. Someone on this site has a nice one for sale as a matter of fact.

[mark555]

Hi Jim, Just a word of welcome from me, this is THE best forum on the web with the best guys anywhere, I hope you hang out with us and join in and feel at home.

 

I have a different take on the whole vintage thing in that I just believe, along with Blue Ox, that so much of it is hype that has overtaken many players. For example, everyone slates CBS strats as being the worst strats ever, yet Hendrix played them and produced terrific tone. And of course, all the vintage stuff that has become the holy grail, was at the time of recording, only a few years old.

 

I used to be friendly with a guy who is into vintage les pauls and 335's etc, and to be honest, by the time he had put them through his modern marshall amps, even though they were tube amps, I could not tell the difference in tone from the new ones other guys were playing. At this time I only own one Heritage, a 555 which I get great tone from, and when I can afford, and the right one turns up I will get an H150. They are without doubt the direct decendants of the vintage guitars that are now out of our reach. The beauty of Heritage guitars and the company is that you can order what you want and get it without paying rediculously inflated prices. As you are no doubt aware, the next step is finding the amp that gives what you want. DEfinitely full size humbuckers though. Good luck and I hope you find the right combination of amp and guitar.

[rjsanders]

...

I have a different take on the whole vintage thing in that I just believe, along with Blue Ox, that so much of it is hype that has overtaken many players. For example, everyone slates CBS strats as being the worst strats ever, yet Hendrix played them and produced terrific tone. And of course, all the vintage stuff that has become the holy grail, was at the time of recording, only a few years old.

...

 

+ Hendrix used long coil cords

 

'nother thing to keep in mind (i keep forgetting this) is EC's Les Pauls were only 6-7 years old when he recorded with them, not ~50 yrs, which they'd be now - wherever they are ...