If I wanted a 1959 Les Paul, but would rather own a Heritage..

[daiku]

Welcome daiku!

 

here is my Heritage '59...it wasnt a custom order, i just got lucky...lol. its a 20th Anniversary H 150. You should do a custome order my friend!!! Wait times are low, quality is high...and you would be stimulating Heritage's production!

 

Go talk to your local dealer!

 

 

 

Brent,

That is a beautiful guitar, I love the color and maple on that one, as well as the nice headstock. You guys are all great for giving me some help in sorting thru the myriad of options out there. As a guy who isn't current on guitar gear, PU's, tuners, etc., this has been really helpful. I probably will end up going into some kind of preamp and monitors to playback, but I haven't figured that out yet.

 

jim

[mark555]

Brent,

That is a beautiful guitar, I love the color and maple on that one, as well as the nice headstock. You guys are all great for giving me some help in sorting thru the myriad of options out there. As a guy who isn't current on guitar gear, PU's, tuners, etc., this has been really helpful. I probably will end up going into some kind of preamp and monitors to playback, but I haven't figured that out yet.

 

jim

 

Jim, all those players you like just did one thing, take a basic guitar and plug it in to a basic amp. That was it, nothing at all. One of the best combinations I have heard for playing at home was a 555 and a fender blues junior.

[Hfan]

Jim, all those players you like just did one thing, take a basic guitar and plug it in to a basic amp. That was it, nothing at all. One of the best combinations I have heard for playing at home was a 555 and a fender blues junior.

I also like the Blues Junior, mine really came to life after I did Bill M's modifications. He's a nice guy as well if interested, here is his site: home.comcast.net/~machrone/bluesjunior.htm

[bolero]

I think you could get ANY H150, put some wolfetone legend or throbak pickups in there, and you'd be good to go...

 

 

I'm not a fan of duncan or schaller pups, I think they sound sterile & dull in comparison...the 2 above really nail those vintage tones IMO

 

*edit don't forget the 50's tone pot wiring, and use a straightforward amp like they recorded all those old sounds with.

[pegleg32]

I also like the Blues Junior, mine really came to life after I did Bill M's modifications. He's a nice guy as well if interested, here is his site: home.comcast.net/~machrone/bluesjunior.htm

 

+1 for Fender BJ with BillM mods. I love mine.

[smurph1]

I hear you. I have no illusions. I am 50 years old and finally have some time to practice and dedicate myself to improve my playing. 20 years of 60 hour work weeks have allowed me a little flexibility now to enjoy life and do some of the things I couldn't do when I was younger. I guess I am reverting back to my teens in some ways. I have gotten back to furniture building, my first love, and music. I remember back in the 70's having to sell my Fender Strat and Princeton Reverb to pay tuition. Always regretted it, but we do what we gotta do. Now I got some scratch, and I am going to get some back...

It's never too late to start my friend..Welcome to the HOC

[Orangepicker]

While you have some really good suggestions here I would suggest that you not forget the neck dimensions of a 1950's les Paul, If you want the sound as good as it can get you have to have the neck thickness as well. if you like thinner necks then forget about this but most 1950's Les Pauls average .900" thick at the first fret and 1.00" thick at the 12th fret. I had a conversation with Marv Lamb last fall while visiting them in Kalamazoo and took them a '55 gold top and a early 1960 double cut junior with the thick neck, Marv measured both of those necks and agreed that a thick neck adds to the quality of tone and sustain. Marv made a decision to make Heritage necks thicker. They now average .860" thick at the first fret and .960-.980 thick a the 12th fret. I had him make 4 guitars previously with those dimensions and Marv likes that thickness. 'Those of you have gotten new Heritages lately should feel and hear the difference. Also remember that Sperzel tuners are 10:1 ratio, they tune up faster, most other tuners are now 16 or 18:1 I would order:

 

1. H150, maybe a lightweight as the mahogany is heavy these days

2. Vintage Sunburst or faded Cherry sunburst,(they wipe some of the cherry back off so it is not so bright) tell them to keep the cherry narrow around the edges

3. Sperzels with aged ivoroid buttons

4. Mother of pearl inlaid logo

5. Ultra flame top upgrade

6. Neck thickness .900"at the first fret and 1.00" at the 12 fret unless you have smaller hands but I am 50 and a thicker neck is easier on arthritis

7. Tom Holmes pickups are the best sounding PAF type pickup I have ever found and I have them in 4 guitars, I intend to buy a set of Throbaks and Tom Shorts though to check them out. Because I hear some great things about them

8. TonePros is standard now

9. Rendal at Heritage has a jar of 1950's Bumble Bee capacitors, he will sell you a pair, I have them in 2 of my guitars or get some Luxe capacitors, I have them in 2 other guitars

10. CTS pots

11. Bone nut (Gibson never used these)

 

If you like a Bigsby (I do) I have them on all of my LP and Heritage guitars. I wouldn't order it with one, I would get a B-5 and Vibramate kit that lets you bolt a mounting plate to the talipiece studs and then the Bigsby bolts to the plate, no drilled holes or regrets later.

 

I only have one other comment, If nothing else will ever sound like a '59 Les Paul then why did Duane Allman take the PAF's out of his '57 Gold Top and put them in his '59 flametop? Because the pickups were very inconsistant being wound by hand and there was a lot of variation in sound in those pickups. A'59 Les Paul is an investment, The Heritage is the better built, better sounding and playing guitar. I'm not being snotty here but I am a well respected vintage dealer. I have played several '59 flametops and Duane Allmans '57 Gold Top. and I say "GO HERITAGE!"

 

Thank You,

Dennis

[smurph1]

While you have some really good suggestions here I would suggest that you not forget the neck dimensions of a 1950's les Paul, If you want the sound as good as it can get you have to have the neck thickness as well. if you like thinner necks then forget about this but most 1950's Les Pauls average .900" thick at the first fret and 1.00" thick at the 12th fret. I had a conversation with Marv Lamb last fall while visiting them in Kalamazoo and took them a '55 gold top and a early 1960 double cut junior with the thick neck, Marv measured both of those necks and agreed that a thick neck adds to the quality of tone and sustain. Marv made a decision to make Heritage necks thicker. They now average .860" thick at the first fret and .960-.980 thick a the 12th fret. I had him make 4 guitars previously with those dimensions and Marv likes that thickness. 'Those of you have gotten new Heritages lately should feel and hear the difference. Also remember that Sperzel tuners are 10:1 ratio, they tune up faster, most other tuners are now 16 or 18:1 I would order:

 

1. H150, maybe a lightweight as the mahogany is heavy these days

2. Vintage Sunburst or faded Cherry sunburst,(they wipe some of the cherry back off so it is not so bright) tell them to keep the cherry narrow around the edges

3. Sperzels with aged ivoroid buttons

4. Mother of pearl inlaid logo

5. Ultra flame top upgrade

6. Neck thickness .900"at the first fret and 1.00" at the 12 fret unless you have smaller hands but I am 50 and a thicker neck is easier on arthritis

7. Tom Holmes pickups are the best sounding PAF type pickup I have ever found and I have them in 4 guitars, I intend to buy a set of Throbaks and Tom Shorts though to check them out. Because I hear some great things about them

8. TonePros is standard now

9. Rendal at Heritage has a jar of 1950's Bumble Bee capacitors, he will sell you a pair, I have them in 2 of my guitars or get some Luxe capacitors, I have them in 2 other guitars

10. CTS pots

11. Bone nut (Gibson never used these)

 

If you like a Bigsby (I do) I have them on all of my LP and Heritage guitars. I wouldn't order it with one, I would get a B-5 and Vibramate kit that lets you bolt a mounting plate to the talipiece studs and then the Bigsby bolts to the plate, no drilled holes or regrets later.

 

I only have one other comment, If nothing else will ever sound like a '59 Les Paul then why did Duane Allman take the PAF's out of his '57 Gold Top and put them in his '59 flametop? Because the pickups were very inconsistant being wound by hand and there was a lot of variation in sound in those pickups. A'59 Les Paul is an investment, The Heritage is the better built, better sounding and playing guitar. I'm not being snotty here but I am a well respected vintage dealer. I have played several '59 flametops and Duane Allmans '57 Gold Top. and I say "GO HERITAGE!"

 

Thank You,

Dennis

You PLAYED Duane's 57? COOL!! Was the action high, because it was setup for slide?

[Orangepicker]

You PLAYED Duane's 57? COOL!! Was the action high, because it was setup for slide?

No not at all, that guitar has been refinished 3 times, the last time by Tom Murphy who patched it all up, reinked the serial number, refinished everything. It looks really good but it was traded in years ago at local music store here in Daytona Beach back then called Coastal Music and it sold to a local musician who has owned it ever since and had all the work done to it over the years. He has it on consignment with a former vintage dealer up in Gainesville FL. It is for sale for $700,000 if you are interested.

[smurph1]

No not at all, that guitar has been refinished 3 times, the last time by Tom Murphy who patched it all up, reinked the serial number, refinished everything. It looks really good but it was traded in years ago a local music store back then called Coastal Music and it sold to a local musician who has owned it ever since and had all the work done to it over the years. He has it on consignment with a former vintage dealer up in Gainesville FL. It is for sale for $700,000 if your interested.

Sure..Will He take a personal check?

[Orangepicker]

Sure..Will He take a personal check?

I can give you his number, you can always ask. Also if all 59 Les Pauls sound so great, do you remember that Duane's last flametop Les Paul, the one that Gibson reissued, was bought from a vintage dealer in Texas and it had the neck broken off and replaced before Duane bought it. Now we know everyone wants that ultimate Fillmore tone that Duane had on the recordings. So which guitar did he use at the Fillmore, that last one with a replaced neck or the previous one with the pickups out of the '57? From the pictures it was definitely the last one with the replaced neck. His previous flametop didn't have a lot of flame. Maybe we better break the necks off of our guitars and have a new neck put on and that will make the difference! You might enjoy the book Skydog, it has some interesting info. and a lot of memories for the players around the Daytona area.

 

thanks,

Dennis

[smurph1]

I can give you his number, you can always ask. Also if all 59 Les Pauls sound so great, do you remember that Duane's last flametop Les Paul, the one that Gibson reissued, was bought from a vintage dealer in Texas and it had the neck broken off and replaced before Duane bought it. Now we know everyone wants that ultimate Fillmore tone that Duane had on the recordings. So which guitar did he use at the Fillmore, that last one with a replaced neck or the previous one with the pickups out of the '57? From the pictures it was definitely the last one with the replaced neck. His previous flametop didn't have a lot of flame. Maybe we better break the necks off of our guitars and have a new neck put on and that will make the difference! You might enjoy the book Skydog, it has some interesting info. and a lot of memories for the players around the Daytona area.

 

thanks,

Dennis

I was kidding..you have to forgive me, I have a dry sense of humor sometimes.. But in a couple months I may get in touch with you about a factory 2nd H-137 TV..Keep your eyes open for me would you? Thanks..

[daiku]

While you have some really good suggestions here I would suggest that you not forget the neck dimensions of a 1950's les Paul, If you want the sound as good as it can get you have to have the neck thickness as well. if you like thinner necks then forget about this but most 1950's Les Pauls average .900" thick at the first fret and 1.00" thick at the 12th fret. I had a conversation with Marv Lamb last fall while visiting them in Kalamazoo and took them a '55 gold top and a early 1960 double cut junior with the thick neck, Marv measured both of those necks and agreed that a thick neck adds to the quality of tone and sustain. Marv made a decision to make Heritage necks thicker. They now average .860" thick at the first fret and .960-.980 thick a the 12th fret. I had him make 4 guitars previously with those dimensions and Marv likes that thickness. 'Those of you have gotten new Heritages lately should feel and hear the difference. Also remember that Sperzel tuners are 10:1 ratio, they tune up faster, most other tuners are now 16 or 18:1 I would order:

 

1. H150, maybe a lightweight as the mahogany is heavy these days

2. Vintage Sunburst or faded Cherry sunburst,(they wipe some of the cherry back off so it is not so bright) tell them to keep the cherry narrow around the edges

3. Sperzels with aged ivoroid buttons

4. Mother of pearl inlaid logo

5. Ultra flame top upgrade

6. Neck thickness .900"at the first fret and 1.00" at the 12 fret unless you have smaller hands but I am 50 and a thicker neck is easier on arthritis

7. Tom Holmes pickups are the best sounding PAF type pickup I have ever found and I have them in 4 guitars, I intend to buy a set of Throbaks and Tom Shorts though to check them out. Because I hear some great things about them

8. TonePros is standard now

9. Rendal at Heritage has a jar of 1950's Bumble Bee capacitors, he will sell you a pair, I have them in 2 of my guitars or get some Luxe capacitors, I have them in 2 other guitars

10. CTS pots

11. Bone nut (Gibson never used these)

 

If you like a Bigsby (I do) I have them on all of my LP and Heritage guitars. I wouldn't order it with one, I would get a B-5 and Vibramate kit that lets you bolt a mounting plate to the talipiece studs and then the Bigsby bolts to the plate, no drilled holes or regrets later.

 

I only have one other comment, If nothing else will ever sound like a '59 Les Paul then why did Duane Allman take the PAF's out of his '57 Gold Top and put them in his '59 flametop? Because the pickups were very inconsistant being wound by hand and there was a lot of variation in sound in those pickups. A'59 Les Paul is an investment, The Heritage is the better built, better sounding and playing guitar. I'm not being snotty here but I am a well respected vintage dealer. I have played several '59 flametops and Duane Allmans '57 Gold Top. and I say "GO HERITAGE!"

 

Thank You,

Dennis

Thanks for the terrific detailed recommendation. Can you explain a little more about the B-5 and Vibramate? Will Heritage source the pickups you all describe or do I have to buy the PU's and send them to them, or do that after the guitar is built?

[daiku]

Also, in terms of amps, I am not particularly interested in driving my family and neighbors out of the area, so I think I need to come up with something that achieves similar drive without the physical speaker distortion or volume, if that makes sense. I need to keep my hearing also! I don't know how closely the Suhr Badger 18 or the Swart AST Head Mk II matches with that original Marshall amp (probably doesn't), but these amps seem to produce good results at low volumes.

[Guido]

This is the perfect guitar for you: http://www.heritageownersclub.com/forums/i...?showtopic=8237

 

I would jump on it!!!

Good starting price, but I'm sure it will go up.

According to the seller the guitar is in perfect condition.

 

I have a 150CM in VSB myself and it's the best guitar I ever had.

 

The SD '59 are good pickups to start with, but they won't make you happy for what you are looking for.

I would go with the Marc Ford Tombuckers. Great pickups for the buck.

I would rewire to the '59 wiring and use PIO caps. Also try some 0.015 caps for the neck pickup. Gives you that woman tone.

 

Everybody is looking for that '59 hype type Les Paul. Actually I can't understand why people buy expensive Gibson reissues.

Heritage offers you a handmade guitar, made from the same luthiers who built the old Gibsons we now call "vintage guitars".

The best way to get what you're looking for is to get a Heritage!!!

 

Guido

[yoslate]

This is the perfect guitar for you: http://www.heritageownersclub.com/forums/i...?showtopic=8237

 

I would jump on it!!!

Good starting price, but I'm sure it will go up.

According to the seller the guitar is in perfect condition.

 

I have a 150CM in VSB myself and it's the best guitar I ever had.

 

The SD '59 are good pickups to start with, but they won't make you happy for what you are looking for.

I would go with the Marc Ford Tombuckers. Great pickups for the buck.

I would rewire to the '59 wiring and use PIO caps. Also try some 0.015 caps for the neck pickup. Gives you that woman tone.

 

Everybody is looking for that '59 hype type Les Paul. Actually I can't understand why people buy expensive Gibson reissues.

Heritage offers you a handmade guitar, made from the same luthiers who built the old Gibsons we now call "vintage guitars".

The best way to get what you're looking for is to get a Heritage!!!

 

Guido

 

Pretty much the Cliff's Notes version of the thread. Good one, Guido....

[Patrick]

While you have some really good suggestions here I would suggest that you not forget the neck dimensions of a 1950's les Paul, If you want the sound as good as it can get you have to have the neck thickness as well. if you like thinner necks then forget about this but most 1950's Les Pauls average .900" thick at the first fret and 1.00" thick at the 12th fret. I had a conversation with Marv Lamb last fall while visiting them in Kalamazoo and took them a '55 gold top and a early 1960 double cut junior with the thick neck, Marv measured both of those necks and agreed that a thick neck adds to the quality of tone and sustain. Marv made a decision to make Heritage necks thicker. They now average .860" thick at the first fret and .960-.980 thick a the 12th fret. I had him make 4 guitars previously with those dimensions and Marv likes that thickness. 'Those of you have gotten new Heritages lately should feel and hear the difference. Also remember that Sperzel tuners are 10:1 ratio, they tune up faster, most other tuners are now 16 or 18:1 I would order:

 

1. H150, maybe a lightweight as the mahogany is heavy these days

2. Vintage Sunburst or faded Cherry sunburst,(they wipe some of the cherry back off so it is not so bright) tell them to keep the cherry narrow around the edges

3. Sperzels with aged ivoroid buttons

4. Mother of pearl inlaid logo

5. Ultra flame top upgrade

6. Neck thickness .900"at the first fret and 1.00" at the 12 fret unless you have smaller hands but I am 50 and a thicker neck is easier on arthritis

7. Tom Holmes pickups are the best sounding PAF type pickup I have ever found and I have them in 4 guitars, I intend to buy a set of Throbaks and Tom Shorts though to check them out. Because I hear some great things about them

8. TonePros is standard now

9. Rendal at Heritage has a jar of 1950's Bumble Bee capacitors, he will sell you a pair, I have them in 2 of my guitars or get some Luxe capacitors, I have them in 2 other guitars

10. CTS pots

11. Bone nut (Gibson never used these)

 

If you like a Bigsby (I do) I have them on all of my LP and Heritage guitars. I wouldn't order it with one, I would get a B-5 and Vibramate kit that lets you bolt a mounting plate to the talipiece studs and then the Bigsby bolts to the plate, no drilled holes or regrets later.

 

I only have one other comment, If nothing else will ever sound like a '59 Les Paul then why did Duane Allman take the PAF's out of his '57 Gold Top and put them in his '59 flametop? Because the pickups were very inconsistant being wound by hand and there was a lot of variation in sound in those pickups. A'59 Les Paul is an investment, The Heritage is the better built, better sounding and playing guitar. I'm not being snotty here but I am a well respected vintage dealer. I have played several '59 flametops and Duane Allmans '57 Gold Top. and I say "GO HERITAGE!"

 

Thank You,

Dennis

 

WOW . . . . that's a pretty complete assessment!! Cudos to you. One thing I would add to your observation. While I totally agree with your comments on the thicker neck affecting the tone, remember, that the tone was transfered from the thicker neck to the body with an elongated neck tenon. Heritage chooses to use the shorter neck tenon at the neck joint due to cost effeciencies. When I asked Ren about it his response was "well, we haven't had any break yet" While that may be true, there is, without a doubt, a greated transfer of resonance and sustain through the longer neck tenon.

[FredZepp]

WOW . . . . that's a pretty complete assessment!! Cudos to you. One thing I would add to your observation. While I totally agree with your comments on the thicker neck affecting the tone, remember, that the tone was transfered from the thicker neck to the body with an elongated neck tenon. Heritage chooses to use the shorter neck tenon at the neck joint due to cost effeciencies. When I asked Ren about it his response was "well, we haven't had any break yet" While that may be true, there is, without a doubt, a greated transfer of resonance and sustain through the longer neck tenon.

I think that it will be difficult to find very many who agree with you here. ...

and for that matter, on the LP forums, where it is considered a "feature", you'll find many that don't agree.

 

It's a glued joint, I think that an argument about one piece or two piece backs would be more relevant.

(and still a non-issue) IMO.

[FredZepp]

I think that it will be difficult to find very many who agree with you here. ...

and for that matter, on the LP forums, where it is considered a "feature", you'll find many that don't agree.

 

It's a glued joint, I think that an argument about one piece or two piece backs would be more relevant.

(and still a non-issue) IMO.

... I hope that the tone of this post didn't seem too confrontational ...

you are welcome to your opinion, ... and others may agree, for all I know.

[Orangepicker]

Thanks for the terrific detailed recommendation. Can you explain a little more about the B-5 and Vibramate? Will Heritage source the pickups you all describe or do I have to buy the PU's and send them to them, or do that after the guitar is built?

Yes, go to www.vibramate.com to check out their adapter plates. It allows you to put a B-5 on your guitar without drilling any holes. It bolts onto the stoptail inserts and then you screw the Bigsby onto the plate so you don't drill any holes in the guitar. They also make one for the B-7 on a Les Paul but I don't know if Heritage has the same dimension from the end of the guitar to the tailpiece. Here are a couple of pictures of mine. They have the Chet Atkins style arms on these two. I have these on 4 of my guitars. You can order these from Allparts. The B-5 will stick up in the back because of the arch of the top. The arch is especially high on my H-155. To answer another question, you will have to buy the aftermarket pickups and send them to Heritage. Tom Holmes take about 6 months.

 

 

 

[Orangepicker]

WOW . . . . that's a pretty complete assessment!! Cudos to you. One thing I would add to your observation. While I totally agree with your comments on the thicker neck affecting the tone, remember, that the tone was transfered from the thicker neck to the body with an elongated neck tenon. Heritage chooses to use the shorter neck tenon at the neck joint due to cost effeciencies. When I asked Ren about it his response was "well, we haven't had any break yet" While that may be true, there is, without a doubt, a greated transfer of resonance and sustain through the longer neck tenon.

There are so many variables and so many opinions. You know that Fender players believe that there is better tone transference to the body through the screws of a bolt on neck. Did you see my earlier post about Duane Allmans guitar he used at the Fillmore was a 59 Burst that had the neck broken and had been renecked by Gibson. Did they use the long tenon when they replaced it? Everyone seems to want that Fillmore sound and many go to extremes to get it. I just like to add a little comedy to the subject.

 

thanks,

Dennis

[rjsanders]

... I hope that the tone of this post didn't seem too confrontational ...

you are welcome to your opinion, ... and others may agree, for all I know.

 

actually i agree with you in principle (tenon length), but disagree with your tenon statement in that i betcha most people would opt for the long tenon (if they're aware of the difference in tenon lengths). i don't (here's where i agree). i think it's more about adequate length for support but, more importantly, the neck profile then the joint to the body plus the entire surface areas of neck & body touching on all sides and fitting snugly. e.g., i recently got a four-bolt Chapin & know how it was built. Bill rough cuts, then refines the cuts, then sands until the parts match & snug perfectly. a creative joint increases surface areas. it'll out-ring any set-neck or through-neck i have, or have played. 'cept for one of his, of course .

 

add'l thought on necks: i visited Rick Turner's shop and couple times and he told me "the neck is the tone engine" of the guitar

 

back to dalku's bluesbreaker sound: the amp hunt should be a fun thing. i doubt you'll find anything that sounds like a naturally overdriven JTM45 combo in low-wattage, but there's an amazing array of great sounding amps out there. surprisingly, some 2xEL84 amps can sound similar. but even those will drive family & neighbors to rudeness . it'll be fun following your tone quest.

[Patrick]

... I hope that the tone of this post didn't seem too confrontational ...

you are welcome to your opinion, ... and others may agree, for all I know.

 

 

Fred: your comments were not taken as confrontational . . by any means. I am currently having a '59 LP clone made by a very skilled luthier. I researched all aspects of the older and the newer LPs and this tenon issue was discussed at length on many occasions. There are 2 chapters in "The Beauty of The Burst" that speak to rigidity of the neck and body (way over my head). It makes for some interesting reading. But, as I said in my initial response to this young man's "quest for tone" look to you fingers and your "feel" first. Duane and Dicky could have made a Sears and Roebuck LP knock off sound great. The Marshall amps sure helped too. It's not always about the tone. Wes Montgomery (early on in his recording days) had some of the worst tone I've ever heard. But nobody cared because he made so much music. We all heard his lines . . . not his tone. Go for the "vibe" the "mojo". If you have that . . . and skills and talent . . . you'll create all the tone you need.

[yoslate]

"Just play the f****n' thing...."

[rjsanders]

Oh, one more thing to narrow down my quest. What I am after is the sound on the classic Blues Breakers with Eric Clapton. The song, "Have you heard". I will never forget the first time I put that on my turntable. The Solo Sent chills down my spine, and still does. Love the timing, immediacy of the cutting sound, everything! A couple more questions come to mind....

 

d@ng - almost let the day go by w/o wishing

<- (note: he was, reportedly, a couple weeks shy of 20 when that was recorded)