If I wanted a 1959 Les Paul, but would rather own a Heritage..

[Thundersteel]

Long tenon vs. short tenon: Once the bass and drums begin, WTF does it matter? CRANK IT!

[ledzef]

Does a neck-thru body constitute a long tenon?

[Kuz]

Quoted from REN WALL "Ah, yea,... But how does it sound?"

 

I will put up my "Greeny" with any LP made at any time.

 

Yea, I am that confident of my "Greeny".

[High Flying Bird]

........ and he told me "the neck is the tone engine" of the guitar.

 

I haven't read all the previous post but I have to agree to an extent. If your neck and fretboard are dead your guitar is dead. No matter the body style.

[Guido]

I just need to say something about short and long tenons.

 

I played several guitars with long neck tenons and I owned a Japanese made LP with a long neck tenon.

My H-150 has the short tenon (like all the others). And you know what? It sounds and sustains better than

any of the long neck ones.

My 150 is from '93 and all the long neck ones I have played were new guitars.

So maybe a vintage Gibson with long neck tenon would sustain even more than my 150. But honestly I don't think so.

IMO it's part of the fuzz about the '59 hype!

 

Guido

[Guido]

So one more thing about the '59 hype!

 

Boris Dommenget, a famous german luthier, had several '59s on his workbench.

He said that each one was different in wood and tone and that not a single PAF sounded like the other. We all heard this before.

So what's the special deal about the '59s? Why are those guitars the holy grail? (Yes I know that Jimmy Page, Duane Allman and many others played '59s)

Actually it is impossible to copy the '59 sound because the guitars and pickups were all different.

And there are also many PAFs out there, which don't sound good at all (maybe that's the reason why Duane Allman removed his PAFs and kept them).

In the '60s the pickups started to be constant due to the manufacturing process. And IMO the early 60 PAFs sound the best.

 

Here's a good link to compare some pickups and to hear a 62 PAF (by the way the Dommenget Set won the comparison):

http://www1.gitarrebass.de/magazine/0502/paf.htm

 

So IMO the whole '59 thing is just a hype.

 

But you can prove me wrong!

 

Guido

[daiku]

d@ng - almost let the day go by w/o wishing

<- (note: he was, reportedly, a couple weeks shy of 20 when that was recorded)

Amazing! Can you imagine what the scene was like there at the time? Think about Clapton, Jeff Beck, Hendrix, Pete Townsend, all those guys emerging around that time and hanging in the UK

[daiku]

Now,

Don't throw rocks at me for this question in this forum, but have any of you considered another US builder, Carvin? They definitely have a different vibe to them, less traditional in build approach, but seems like a similar situation. Solid quality build, customize whatever you want in terms of look, not great resale value.

 

Just curious if any of you guys have had a Carvin and what your impressions are. I have never seen one myself.

 

By the way, I have to say I am very impressed by the willingness of all you folks taking the time to really think thru the build that would make sense for me. This forum is really great!

[rjsanders]

Now,

Don't throw rocks at me for this question in this forum, but have any of you considered another US builder, Carvin? They definitely have a different vibe to them, less traditional in build approach, but seems like a similar situation. Solid quality build, customize whatever you want in terms of look, not great resale value.

 

Just curious if any of you guys have had a Carvin and what your impressions are. I have never seen one myself.

...

 

DC150 (stereo). '82, IIRC. my son has it now. good build, very playable, solid maple. too bright & plinky for me, so i had Dan Torres put in Seymour Alnico II Pro & JB. didn't help much.

 

that's why my son has it

 

good backup or beginner-intermediate guitar.

[smurph1]

Fred: your comments were not taken as confrontational . . by any means. I am currently having a '59 LP clone made by a very skilled luthier. I researched all aspects of the older and the newer LPs and this tenon issue was discussed at length on many occasions. There are 2 chapters in "The Beauty of The Burst" that speak to rigidity of the neck and body (way over my head). It makes for some interesting reading. But, as I said in my initial response to this young man's "quest for tone" look to you fingers and your "feel" first. Duane and Dicky could have made a Sears and Roebuck LP knock off sound great. The Marshall amps sure helped too. It's not always about the tone. Wes Montgomery (early on in his recording days) had some of the worst tone I've ever heard. But nobody cared because he made so much music. We all heard his lines . . . not his tone. Go for the "vibe" the "mojo". If you have that . . . and skills and talent . . . you'll create all the tone you need.

I'm WAAAAAYYYYYY Late to this discussion, but if you gave Jimmy Page (in his prime) or now for that matter, a Squier and a Solid State amp, he'd still sound great..IMHO

[rjsanders]

Now,

Don't throw rocks at me for this question in this forum, but have any of you considered another US builder, Carvin? They definitely have a different vibe to them, less traditional in build approach, but seems like a similar situation. Solid quality build, customize whatever you want in terms of look, not great resale value.

...

 

funny story: a friend of mine is an absolute LP bigot. lately he's mellowed & even gotten an ES-335 that is real nice. anyway, when i got my 55 BB we had a bunch over to A/B/C/D a buncha guits. he plugs in my 157GT (w/Lollar P90s, btw), plays this, riffs on that, tries various togglings & knob twists, then sez, "yep, it's a Les Paul all right..."

 

shocked hell outa me

 

me, if i wanted an LP, i'd go w/Heritage. unless i had a *really* compelling reason (& a lotta money) to do elsewise.

 

but each guit is different & it's a journey to find the one that's right for you. unless yer real lucky & it's just a stroll around the corner

[daiku]

I have been wavering on this a little bit, and considering a different alternative entirely - A Heritage H535. I guess I am thinking it might be more versatile.

 

I already own an older EC Strat and a Solid Body Godin LGXT with a 25 1/2 scale length w/SD Humbuckers. I primarily use the Godin with the 13 pin Roland output, rather than the Humbuckers. That is a steep learning curve!

 

I heard some pretty good pedal combinations on Wolfe Guitars You Tube videos(not the best sound quality) with the H535 that got pretty close to that Bluesbreaker sound.

 

Any comments from some of you helpful folks that have played both?

[daiku]

Anyone?

[eljay]

well . . . i have yet to take delivery of my Heritage, an H530 hollow body, so i cannot speak to the h150 vs. h535 issue per se.

 

however, i have 3 gibson les pauls and an es-335. i'll suggest to you, as many folks will, that the two guitars are very different and each does some things very well. the conventional wisdom, to which i subscribe, is that the 335 delivers a wider tonal variety than the lester.

 

i like having both. i realize this is no help to you in your decision. i think it likely that if you get the h150, then you'll want a 535, or vice versa.

 

good luck with your quest. eljay

[rjsanders]

Anyone?

 

$0.02: how close does one have to be to be close enough? it varies for each of us, so IMHO no one can tell me but me.

 

alternative view: i like it when things sound better [tm] than the original. for all i know, i might prefer a semi-hollow sound for everything on the Bluesbreakers LP. i might prefer my H-137 w/Lollar P90s...but that's just me (to begin with, anywayz)

[SouthpawGuy]

I have been wavering on this a little bit, and considering a different alternative entirely - A Heritage H535. I guess I am thinking it might be more versatile.

 

I already own an older EC Strat and a Solid Body Godin LGXT with a 25 1/2 scale length w/SD Humbuckers. I primarily use the Godin with the 13 pin Roland output, rather than the Humbuckers. That is a steep learning curve!

 

I heard some pretty good pedal combinations on Wolfe Guitars You Tube videos(not the best sound quality) with the H535 that got pretty close to that Bluesbreaker sound.

 

Any comments from some of you helpful folks that have played both?

 

I had a Godin LGXSA in lefty, before they stopped making most of their range available in lefty, and I have to say a 535 is on a totally different level for playing the blues. The Godin never really clicked with me, a great instrument but missing that "vibe", and I traded it for a strat.

[rjsanders]

here's a clip of LeonC (TGP) getting "in the ballpark" with gear completely unlike EC's

 

and here's the thread where this appeared and where this topic was discussed by some real knowledgeable folks. note particularly input from trisonic and hogy (Komet amps)

[daiku]

I found this book - Guitar Rigs - Classic Guitar & Amp Combinations by Dave Hunter, published by Backbeat Books. I have just started reading it, but I think it will be useful for a newbe like me. The Discussion on the British Blues has been very helpful, as well as the entire chain from strings to amplifier. It has done a great deal to educate me as to the futility of the Clapton Bluesbreaker quest. I'll look for something that will get me close.

[ledzef]

I found this book - Guitar Rigs - Classic Guitar & Amp Combinations by Dave Hunter, published by Backbeat Books. I have just started reading it, but I think it will be useful for a newbe like me. The Discussion on the British Blues has been very helpful, as well as the entire chain from strings to amplifier. It has done a great deal to educate me as to the futility of the Clapton Bluesbreaker quest. I'll look for something that will get me close.

Daiku, I was newbie over 20 years ago trying to get that sound and yeah with prices through the roof like 200k for the '59 burst alone it's crazy. If you haven't seen Cream's last concert where Clapton uses that red 335 check it out he rips on that guitar. I'd say a 535 is a good choice, great bluesy sound but you can push it for some hard rock. Just keep at it the reward of nailing a song or solo is so worth it, frustrating for sure but rewarding at the end of the day. Enjoy and keep on playing.