Heritage Sweet 16 "Custom" guitar. A little help, please!

[SteveHoffman]

It's possible that this has been covered before, if so, forgive me. The search engine here doesn't accept the phrase SWEET 16 (which is pretty ironic for a Heritage Guitars Forum!)

 

So, I have a bunch of archtops that I play on a regular basis and I received a beautiful SWEET 16 in a deal a few years ago and have just now started enjoying it.

 

The guitar is a bit oddball because it has a mounted humbucker rather than a floating pickup. Also the pickguard is more Gibson old style. I was told that the reason this instrument was ordered this way is that the original player didn't like the electric tone that the 16 has with the floating pickup. It is felt that this special order thickened the rather thin, reedy tone of the standard electric version.

 

Does anyone play a Sweet 16? If so, your comments, please in general? Or, can you direct me to an old thread about this?

 

Either way, thanks for your help. I love the guitar but just want to know a bit about the customizing done..

[brentrocks]

Welcome to the HOC!

 

that is a beautiful Sweet 16...i'm not an archtop player, but we have a lot of them here that will chime in soon.

[FredZepp]

B (Joe Barth): What about the SWEET 16?

JPM (JP Moats): Back when I was working for Gibson in the Custom Shop a guy called up and wanted us to build him a custom guitar and what he said that he wanted in a guitar was for it to be 16 inches wide and to play really sweet (laughter). In remembering that conversation, we decided to call this one of our's the Sweet 16.

 

http://www.heritageownersclub.com/forums/i...90&hl=Sweet

 

http://www.heritageownersclub.com/forums/i...45&hl=Sweet

 

http://www.heritageownersclub.com/forums/i...00&hl=Sweet

 

http://www.heritageownersclub.com/forums/i...02&hl=Sweet

 

 

 

A couple of links to start you out....

[FredZepp]

BTW... Welcome to the Club

From a '92 Price List...

 

From the '89 Catalog....

[jazzbo]

Thats a nice looking Sweet 16.. here is mine

 

.

 

think about this guitar as really being an acoustic guitar ..Mine has a "floater" pickup ( in the photo it is the custom KA handwound) which does not touch the body but picks up the vibrations..Dont expect to sound like an electric.. I had been advised to mount a pickup to the body (as yours) but I reallly thought it would change the nature of the instrument.. In my case I am glad I did not.. I like the tone that it delivers..

 

Its drawbacks are_ very sensitive guitar, needs to be handled with care, lightweight also means very susceptible to feedback, and the carved tap tuned top can generate harmonics that can be disturbing (particularly when in a small room with loud bass, drums , sax etc) The whole body can start humming (its a great to feel the guitar physically singing)but that can soon turn messy.. So keep it at reasonable vols, throw some flat wounds on it and enjoy the gittar !

 

The 16 inch body makes it really comfortable and it is surprisingly loud accousitcally, and also nicely tone balanced across the strings. If I played in a big band , I would use this guitar with low amplification, then miked through the PA

 

Heritage liked uograding the stock Schaller Floaterwith a 4 point mounted HRW.. I think this would just be too much for this guitar..too hot, for a light bodied accoustic.. I personally think they liked pushing the HRWs.. did not make sense to me, which is why I went with Kent's floater

 

Again think of it as an accoustic guitar. with a pickup attached. Enjoy it

[SteveHoffman]

Thanks one and all. I guess more than a few players prefer the mounted 'bucker. Interesting.

 

And thanks for the links to old threads. Silly, I never thought of just typing "sweet" in the search engine.

 

I can't believe the number of variations in the Sweet 16 model over the years. Bewildering.

 

I love playing mine though. Such a joy 'cause I'm used to 17"ers. Amazing what one removed inch can do.

 

Any more insights would be appreciated. Thanks!

[FredZepp]

Silly, I never thought of just typing "sweet" in the search engine.

It's not that easy really, because we have a habit of using the word "sweet" alot here,

 

Especially when someone posts a new Heritage guitar.

 

I think that I went through about 20 pages of posts to come up with those 4...

[Windstring]

Hello 5639 (your nickname is even more cryptic than mine!),

I think "jazzbo" has covered most of the bases. I am a keen archtop guy, especially acoustic archtops. The Sweet 16 is simply a scaled down Golden/Super Eagle with the X-bracing and other finery (nice inlays, 25.5 inch scale, etc). The X-bracing gives the guitar a more mellow sound than would be case with parallel bracing. Because Heritage has long been open to customizing guitars for various buyers, I believe the Sweet 16 has always been available with a mounted pickup since its inception. However, most of them have been acoustic models with floaters. All of jazzbo's comments about amplifying the floating pickup model are right on the mark. My view is that if you need to play at a volume that causes feedback, you should probably be playing a different guitar in that context. Finally, I suspect your guitar is still an X-braced guitar which means it retains much of its nice acoustic sound: please note that Heritage used to parallel brace the top when mounting pickups, before the 4-point HRW pickup became the more standard practice. My experience has been that the parallel braced guitars do not have as nice an acoustic sound. OK. Enough rambling. Better get back to playing the things! Cheers.

[SteveHoffman]

Windstring,

 

I appreciate your thoughts. X bracing is like on the Johnny Smith GIBSON models, correct? He wanted that sound. A bit more top and bottom with less mids sound? I also have an old X-braced Herringbone Martin D-28 that has a similar "ring" to it.

 

At any rate, I'm enjoying this little guitar a lot. It's much more guitar (IMO) than a reissue Gibson ES-175 and the price is still reasonable (although I'm seeing a big price jump these days in this thing...)

 

 

Thanks again, all.

 

 

Steve

[ronalr]

Welcome to the club and thanks for the pictures...great looking sweet 16 you got there!!!

[skydog52]

Welcome to the club. That is a beauty.

I received mine about a 2 months ago. Still playing

around with it and learning it. I agree with other opinions,

it is very acoustic. I love the sound. Enjoy.

Here is pic of mine.

[SteveHoffman]

Beautiful color!

[Steiner]

I was fortunate enough to play a Sweet 16 about a month ago. I'm in Love; you will be to, I'm sure.

 

Congrats and happy new guitar day!

[SteveHoffman]

Gee, people here are so nice, no yelling and screaming like on some other music forums.

 

Can someone just yell at me, please? I'm so used to it!

 

At any rate, I was told by a nice member here that I have a custom Heritage Sweet 16 with Antique Natural front, Natural back and sides, pickup upgraded to Heritage premium 4-point mounted HRW pickup, ebony fingerboard with volume and additional tone control.

[Gitfiddler]

Hey Steve, nice to see another Sweet 16 owner/player. As described, yours seems even more special. What strings and amp are you using?

 

Windstring gave a valid comparison of the 16 being sort of a scaled down Golden Eagle. Here's a shot to show their similarities...and obvious differences.

 

 

 

[SteveHoffman]

Interesting comparison, thanks.

 

You asked about amps? I am always on the eternal amp quest. When I was in an oldies band back in the 1980's I used a '64 Fender Concert or a Twin. Now they are just so friggin' heavy. I use a 1959 Fender tweed Vibrolux with my Guild Artist Award and DeArmond (doesn't work with humbuckers, too over the top distorted) and I have a nice '63 Princeton which is surprisingly loud. Still, for that nice Wes tone I have nothing and want something. Solid State amps are light and all and very dynamic but being used to jazz guitar records from the 1940's and 50's that feature a bit of breakup in the amps, I'm uncomfortable without the compression of tubes. Wes used a Standel amp and Grant Green & Johnny Smith used that weird Ampeg but I have no clue as to the perfect amp for archtops.

 

What about you? I know this is the wrong place for amp talk but I would sure like my Amp Quest to be over already...

[Kuz]

I only regret selling two guitars in my life (maybe regret is the wrong word, more like I miss them)..... one of those two guitars is my Heritage Sweet 16.

 

I believe the Sweet 16 and the 575 are the two best archtop models that Heritage makes!

 

Pics of my former Sweet 16 (now in good hands with "Tileman")

 

 

I had the factory install the HRW "4 point floating" humbucker and it was a HUGE improvement over the true floating jazz pickup it originally had. Kenny Burrell, Henry Johnson. Mimi Fox, and Vince Lewis have all gone this route as well.

[SteveHoffman]

That was what I was told about mine. Many players like it better with the HRW pickup. My Sweet 16 is getting a lot of play. So easy to play and a great tone.

[Windstring]

Hi again 5639 (aka Steve),

Concerning amps, as you no doubt know, many jazz players (myself included) like Polytone amps...small, powerful and portable. But I have also played small Fender tube amps, like Princeton Reverbs or Deluxe Reverbs, with success in a jazz context. I suspect your Vibrolux and Princeton would also do the job nicely, but I figure you are looking for something smaller. And to respond to your comment about X-bracing, yes, you are right about the Gibson Johnny Smith: it was X-braced, and clearly this thinking carried over to the fine folks at Heritage when they designed the Golden Eagle and Sweet Sixteen: you sacrifice a little volume but gain a nicer fullness in the midrange. To switch back to amps again, I find that solid-state amps are fine for jazz: I guess I'm looking for that perennial "clean" sound. This is why in addition to Polytones, there are a bunch of other brands around (JazzKat, Acoustic Image, Evans, Henriksen....check out http://www.legatoguitars.com) in this format. However, to repeat myself, small tube amps from Fender or Gibson (esp. with reverb) can surely do the job and provide some of that "tube warmth" you require. Enjoy the "quest"!

P.S.: You are so right about the "yelling" on other forums. I have seen a little of that on this forum at times, but usually among the "solidbody" discussions: we "archtop folks" tend to be more mellow (but I'm bracing myself now for an attack.... )

[Ned]

My brief experience my Sweet 16 is that the floating pickup is very low - a fat 1/4 inch - below the strings. Sounds great though low power amps with volume up and gain up. Sounds great, but never loud even if I am pushing 5-10 watts pretty hard.

 

Per my avatar, I play some though a silverface twin. This is the only time this amp sees "5" or better. Gravity loves that amp and it doesn't really leave the house. I am considering cutting a new pickguard spacer to raise the pickup some. Otherwise, the sweet 16 is a guilty and private pleasure. I play out with higher output guitars and amps I can move myself.

 

Must say, the 16 is played acoustically about half the time, and I am happy all the time. Good comments above, I agree that mine is an acoustic guitar that can be plugged in, not an electric guitar. Fine, fine instrument.

[SteveHoffman]

Just wanted to say that a member here (a helpful bunch you are!) told me that my Sweet 16 has a Seymour Duncan SH-1 '59 humbucking pickup in it, for that exact Seth Lover PAF sound. Has a D.C. Resistance of 7.43k. Retroland.

 

 

 

Makes sense. I guess the original player had a certain idea in mind and went for it...

[SteveHoffman]

"Good comments above, I agree that mine is an acoustic guitar that can be plugged in, not an electric guitar. Fine, fine instrument."

 

 

 

It is nice, acoustically. Hard to believe since a 16" archtop usually has a thin, muted acoustic tone (like the ES-175).

[Ned]

"Good comments above, I agree that mine is an acoustic guitar that can be plugged in, not an electric guitar. Fine, fine instrument."

 

 

 

It is nice, acoustically. Hard to believe since a 16" archtop usually has a thin, muted acoustic tone (like the ES-175).

 

Ah, but carved spruce, and in my case, x-bracing and a floating pickup are bound to make a difference. Some would say scale length would make a difference too.

[barrymclark]

Gee, people here are so nice, no yelling and screaming like on some other music forums.

It is a bit strange, isn't it?

 

A welcome strange but strange. I spend most of my time here. Great info and you don't have to feel weird about asking questions or stating your opinion. People will certainly rebut, but it is almost always done in a very respectful manner.

 

The few times I have seen it get a little tense, apologies have been delivered.

 

I guess it helps that this forum isn't overrun by 17 year olds who think hurling a obscenity-laced insult equals a good point as is most other forums I have been to. That is where you see it get really, really rediculous.

 

The other thing that seems to really run other forums aground is an extreme dominance of a point of view and complete lack of tolerance of other points of view with regards to the forum's overall topic or related topics. Also, at times, exacerbated by the point above about 17 year olds.

 

Here, you have a happy marriage of music lovers and instrument lovers. Some have a lean one way or the other but have respect for the direction they lean away from. Rather nice.

 

The final thing I have seen just ruin a good forum is politics. I have seen that ugly head pop in here a couple of times... but it was rather soundly ignored and it went away.

 

 

Anways... I have hijacked this thread long enough.

 

Killer guitar.

[SteveHoffman]

Ah, but carved spruce, and in my case, x-bracing and a floating pickup are bound to make a difference. Some would say scale length would make a difference too.

I believe you are right!