Guest mgoetting Posted June 8, 2010 Posted June 8, 2010 How close can you simulate various amp and cabinet sounds digitally? I'm picking up a used Digitech GNX1 for various reasons. I know that this device is archaic now and wonder how advanced the newer models are. I like the sounds from tube amps but would like to go solid state if there's no trade off in tone. Comments appreciated.
Dick Seacup Posted June 8, 2010 Posted June 8, 2010 I have a GNX4 and think it's fine. My opinion is that unless the model you've tweaked (or selected) sounds absolutely nasty, once it's in the mix nobody will notice but the cork sniffers.
smurph1 Posted June 8, 2010 Posted June 8, 2010 I had a Line 6 Flextone amp for many years, and used it onstage to great effect..the Soldano overdrive tones were outstanding..Your Mileage may vary..
Thundersteel Posted June 8, 2010 Posted June 8, 2010 I have a Peavey Vypyr digital modeling amp, and I'm surprised at how good it sounds. If the Digitech sounds good to you, then that's all that matters.
LK155 Posted June 9, 2010 Posted June 9, 2010 Like Mr. C-Cup, er.. I mean Seacup, I too have a Digitech GNX4. Love it. Its Fender sounds are, to me, just right. Mind you, I have no direct basis for comparison, just what's in my head. As to the actual question..."how close can you simulate various amp and cabinet sounds digitally?', I would say.....it depends on your frame of reference. If you're intimately familiar with the sound of a PAF pickup into a blackface Vibrolux Reverb, you may not be completely happy with the digital recreation thereof. On the other hand, if you're like most of us (who have never experienced such sonic nirvana), the digital simulation will probably sound damn good. It appears you're talking about buying an outmoded electronic device that may (or may not) save you the trouble of spending a whole lot more on the real thing. I say go for it.
Dick Seacup Posted June 9, 2010 Posted June 9, 2010 On the subject of tube v. solid-state: http://www.epinions.com/content_3726614660 From the article, which was printed in 2004: The musician was out of sight and nobody was allowed to view the “setup”! 11 musicians and guitar amp owners with an additional 7 non musicians participated in the exercise as “judges”... We all had to answer one simple question: “Tube Amp” or “Solid State Amp”? Each amp was played in random order, 3 separate times at slightly different settings and with different guitars. So what were the results? First, some astonishing facts: - every single tube amp was mistaken for a solid state amp, and - every modeling amp was mistaken for a tube amp. Our analyses of the results: - we all agreed that many had chosen “solid state” simply because all of the sound samples could not be from tube amps alone! - there was no correlation between tube amp owners, modeling amp owners and non musicians when it came to distinguishing between a tube or a solid state amp. And the big winner was... “Tube Amps” continue to rule when it comes to its’ mild overdrive soft clipping sound and tone! Close to 90% of our listening audience could tell they we’re listening to a real tube amp when it was set to a soft clip overdrive tone. The big winner in the modeling samples on hand was the DuoVerb, 70% had mistaken it for a tube amp on both the Fender and Vox settings. While the Vox Valvetronix faired just as well as the DV on its Vox settings it did very poorly on other settings for an average of 35% overall, the lowest percentage of all modeling amps on hand which still managed to fool some who had mistaking it for a tube amp. The Fender Stage 100 did really good, considering 55% had mistaken it for a tube amp. The other surprise was the Yamaha DG80-112. It came as a complete surprise to many when it was announced that close to 60% of the audience had mistaken it for a tube amp. I think digital modeling has come a long way in six years. Look at the success of apps like Guitar Rig and Amplitube. I have heard very good recordings done with both of those (I have Guitar Rig, but have never been able to get deep enough in to it to make it sound better than it does out of the box) as well as Pod, various modeling amps, multi-effects boards (GNX series, and others). I really think that as long as it's not ice-pick in the ear and the song is well constructed and played, the listener doesn't care how/what you use.
Steiner Posted June 9, 2010 Posted June 9, 2010 I have a Pod. It's fun when mindlessly noodling. Different amps & configurations evoke different styles; some are worth pursuing. For that reason alone, I cannot convince myself to get rid of it.
barrymclark Posted June 9, 2010 Posted June 9, 2010 Did the Line6 thing for years. It was always a close but no cigar kinda thing for me. Others will disagree. ...just like any amp. I really dig the Roland Cubes. I actually got into it for the jazzier tones it does but since then have been pretty amazed at the other sounds it does.
zepsongs Posted June 9, 2010 Posted June 9, 2010 I had a Line 6. Hated it. Moved on to a GNX4 for a couple years now. Love it. I can do anything with it. Jam along to MP3s, play with the drum machine, and record on board to the 8-track recorder. Has inputs & outputs for anything you can imagine, including a headphone jack for those late nights when inspiration hits. Everything can be tweaked right from my laptop and it entirely portable. I can't imagine ever giving it up. Did the Line6 thing for years. It was always a close but no cigar kinda thing for me. Others will disagree. ...just like any amp. I really dig the Roland Cubes. I actually got into it for the jazzier tones it does but since then have been pretty amazed at the other sounds it does.
Dandownunder Posted June 9, 2010 Posted June 9, 2010 I've got a Yamaha DG Stomp. It's fairly versatile, can be used as a digital pre amp, or simply as a multi effects unit. I mostly use it as a preamp on an old 1964 class A non master 60 watt Australian made FySonic. It sounds pretty sweet for a digital.
JeffB Posted June 9, 2010 Posted June 9, 2010 Ive got...Korg REMS, Vox , Line 6 xt Live, Boss COSM, Zoom, Digitech RP stuff and Yamaha DG80 112. Ive gigged straight to the desk with the Boss, Line6 and digitech. Ive felt ripped off everytime. But the people still got up and danced. Like they would if I used my favourite valve amp. So I dont know. I can always dial in a good clean tone and get some nice delays etc but I can never get a crunchy rhythm sound that I like. Lead always sounds buzzy and notes fall away to fast. I normally use a good OD pedal in front to try and smooth things out and make it feel more natural. Some times that works wonderfully. The Yamaha DG80 112 is actually pretty cool. I think I like it better than most of the other digital toys I have. I havent fired it up for a long time years. Think I will tonight. Thanks for the reminder. Kinda like a new amp day with out the expense.
JeffB Posted June 9, 2010 Posted June 9, 2010 The Yamaha DG80 112 is actually pretty cool. I think I like it better than most of the other digital toys I have. I havent fired it up for a long time years. Think I will tonight. Thanks for the reminder. Kinda like a new amp day with out the expense. So glad it was a new amp day without the expense. What was cool and something I forgot, did freak me out for a second. Motorized controls. The dials turn by themselves everytime you select a new preset.
t0aj15 Posted June 9, 2010 Posted June 9, 2010 Allan Holdsworth has been using a pair of Yamaha DG80-112's with matching extension cabs for several years. I have among more then a dozen tube amps a digital rig which consists of a Digitech GSP-1101 digital stereo preamp/processor which feeds an ART-SLA2 poweramp which in turn powers a pair of Mesa Thiele 112 cabs loaded with EVM-12L speakers. I also have a VooDoo Labs Ground Control Pro that controls all the switching duties. Everything (including the speakers) is loaded into a 21 space Grundorf rack which makes for a very neat, compact, and at 400 watts a very loud rig. The sound of this rig is amazingly good for an all SS setup and since I've recently started using a Line 6 Relay G30 wireless unit the only cables I have to mess with are the power cord and the midi cable for the foot controller which makes for VERY fast and easy setup/teardown.
kbp810 Posted June 9, 2010 Posted June 9, 2010 I have a GNX4 and think it's fine. My opinion is that unless the model you've tweaked (or selected) sounds absolutely nasty, once it's in the mix nobody will notice but the cork sniffers. Cork sniffer here I've always been a straight tube person... I even rarely use pedals. Not sure why, and I'm not really a good enough of a player to really justify my reasons even if I had them! For me, I think it's just sort of a minimalist approach to tone, I like to hear an amps/tubes true voice. Now as far as hearing a difference... I won't say I could do a blind test and always tell one from the other - many SS rigs do sound darn right awesome! ...but I think if I know one is tube and the other is SS, something in my brain just tells me the tubes are sounding better. I'm sure that probably sounds stupid... but thats my two cent's just the same. -of course good tone is highly subjective, and in the end if it sounds good to you and sounds at least decent to others, then that's all that really matters.
fxdx99 Posted June 9, 2010 Posted June 9, 2010 Digitech: "When close is good enough" - brought to you by your local toob-snob.
Dick Seacup Posted June 10, 2010 Posted June 10, 2010 Digitech: "When close is good enough" - brought to you by your local toob-snob. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
JeffB Posted June 10, 2010 Posted June 10, 2010 Allan Holdsworth has been using a pair of Yamaha DG80-112's with matching extension cabs for several years. I thought he was using Carvins or Hughes & Kettner now. The DGs have been out of production for a while I think. They have 20 bit ad/da converters. Even cheap little digitech RP355 etc and Line6 now have 24 bit.(if that makes a difference) If he wants my DG80 he can have it.(maybe trade for his old mesa pre's) His love for it may run deeper than mine. I guess it was pretty cool for the time. Solid Yamaha construction.
JeffB Posted June 10, 2010 Posted June 10, 2010 When I play, I know what Im using.(well duh) and prefer the feel and response of tubes. Its quite simple for me. Easy. When I listen to others play with a band I only care that it sounds alright and fits in with the song. I dont care what they are using. I might not really be listening, just there having a good time. When I listen to customers in the amp room I sometimes cant tell what amp theyre using. Digital, SS or tube. If theyre using a low gain setting and can play reasonable I can usually guess if its a Mesa, Hughes and Kettner Marshall or what ever. The more extreme gain and drop tuning and it starts to be really hard to pick. Though I can generally guess a Mesa dual rec as opposed to a H&K Tri amp or trilogy. Its the Randalls, Line6 and PV's that I cant pick. They all just sound like gain. I dont mean to be a cork sniffer or tube purist but its what I like to use. I dont care if no one else can tell. I use modeling stuff but I dont really like to. If I was given a desert island(with power) scenario and could only take one amp, it would be a tube amp(and spare tubes) not a modeling device.
Guest mgoetting Posted June 10, 2010 Posted June 10, 2010 When I play, I know what Im using.(well duh) and prefer the feel and response of tubes. Its quite simple for me. Easy.When I listen to others play with a band I only care that it sounds alright and fits in with the song. I dont care what they are using. I might not really be listening, just there having a good time. When I listen to customers in the amp room I sometimes cant tell what amp theyre using. Digital, SS or tube. If theyre using a low gain setting and can play reasonable I can usually guess if its a Mesa, Hughes and Kettner Marshall or what ever. The more extreme gain and drop tuning and it starts to be really hard to pick. Though I can generally guess a Mesa dual rec as opposed to a H&K Tri amp or trilogy. Its the Randalls, Line6 and PV's that I cant pick. They all just sound like gain. I dont mean to be a cork sniffer or tube purist but its what I like to use. I dont care if no one else can tell. I use modeling stuff but I dont really like to. If I was given a desert island(with power) scenario and could only take one amp, it would be a tube amp(and spare tubes) not a modeling device. On a desert island which tube amp would you bring? In other words, what do you recommend for a tube practice (personal) amp? My choice in guitar for that island would be a H-555. It would make a nice paddle, unlike my H-157.
FredZepp Posted June 10, 2010 Posted June 10, 2010 It's fun when mindlessly noodling. Different amps & configurations evoke different styles; some are worth pursuing. I agree... I haven't used my Podxt for a while... but it sure is fun to experiment with all of what is available inside of it.... Still my tube or hybrid tube amps are what I use daily..
JeffB Posted June 10, 2010 Posted June 10, 2010 On a desert island which tube amp would you bring? In other words, what do you recommend for a tube practice (personal) amp? My choice in guitar for that island would be a H-555. It would make a nice paddle, unlike my H-157. Well I guess being stuck on an island(warm climate, nice beaches, girl friday) it doesnt have to be a small watt practice amp. Anything in the "What amps are heritage owners playing" thread would do fine. But if I couldnt jag any of those I would be happy enough with my Mesa LS and 212 cab. As for a guitar thats a hard choice for me to make. Probably one of Kuz's.
JeffB Posted June 10, 2010 Posted June 10, 2010 How close can you simulate various amp and cabinet sounds digitally? I'm picking up a used Digitech GNX1 for various reasons. I know that this device is archaic now and wonder how advanced the newer models are. I like the sounds from tube amps but would like to go solid state if there's no trade off in tone. Comments appreciated. Sorry mgoetting, once again Ive gone so off topic without fully digesting what the original question was. I think that modeling units are getting better. Its why I guess I keep ending up with newer ones. They are cheap and toy like but can be fun and can give enough of the flavour of the real thing to make you want the real thing and help you to decide what you might really like. The editing functions can be what annoys people about them a lot of the time. Some of the presets are just unusable. For some they just want a plug in and play unit and cant be bothered tweaking so it wears thin fast. Room for 99 sounds and they only use two patches. A roland cube can be a great answer for a small, light, good sounding amp with some built in fx. I could deal with that in the island scenario. Failing that a peavey bandit would do me fine. Enjoy the GNX1. It might meet your needs perfectly.
Scooter Posted June 10, 2010 Posted June 10, 2010 Fractal Audio Axe FX (coupled with one of their Atomic amps, especially) has really impressed me from what I have seen/heard and read. I've read a lot of tube amp guys are impressed, as well. Hard to check out since there's only one dealer in the USA (Tone Merchants in CA). But hearing the feedback from youtubers, TGP, etc., etc., etc. the response to the unit is overwhelmingly positive. Got to admit when I go to pull the trigger on an amp...I'm tempted. Here's a pretty good demo of the Axe FX with one of their Atomic amps (active cab with 6L6 tubes): This dude has several demos like this, as well. Here's another decent demo: http://www.youtube.com/user/HotImprovisor#p/u/6/fkxH3zTn5DU The website is www.fractalaudio.com
Guest mgoetting Posted June 10, 2010 Posted June 10, 2010 Fractal Audio Axe FX (coupled with one of their Atomic amps, especially) has really impressed me from what I have seen/heard and read. I've read a lot of tube amp guys are impressed, as well. Hard to check out since there's only one dealer in the USA (Tone Merchants in CA). But hearing the feedback from youtubers, TGP, etc., etc., etc. the response to the unit is overwhelmingly positive. Got to admit when I go to pull the trigger on an amp...I'm tempted. Here's a pretty good demo of the Axe FX with one of their Atomic amps (active cab with 6L6 tubes): This dude has several demos like this, as well. Here's another decent demo: http://www.youtube.com/user/HotImprovisor#p/u/6/fkxH3zTn5DU The website is www.fractalaudio.com Fantastic effects. The second video is really impressive. Great guitarist but he could smile once in a while.
Guest mgoetting Posted June 10, 2010 Posted June 10, 2010 Fantastic effects. The second video is really impressive. Great guitarist but he could smile once in a while. These are dang expensive.
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