Eagle jazz guitar advice

[killaCONRAD]

Hi fellas,

I am considering buying my first Heritage guitar later today. It's the 1999 Eagle that Elderly is selling. I've been playing jazz as a hobby for 5 years or so. I play on a les paul and an arched top acoustic guitar. (Bossa on my nylon string though!) I have never owned a traditional jazz guitar, and in casually looking around at different options, the Eagle immediately jumped out at me. I've called every guitar store in my hometown, and a ton of stores in LA, where I was visiting this weekend. The carved solid top, American handmade, fully hollow guitar with Venetian cutaway and floating pickup for under $2000 just does not exist. Except for a used Eagle, which seems almost perfect.

 

Also, I have to admit, this guy's modded Eagle, which looks just like Barney Kessel's ES-350, helped!

 

But I have a few worries- I have never touched this guitar in person. Elderly is a very reputable store, but I have never bought a guitar over the internet before. The guitar is all mahogany, back top and sides. I am a big LP guy, and I have even been pretty into some all mahogany flat-top acoustic guitars-- I love mahogany! ...But I am pretty sure most of my favorite jazz guitar tones were achieved with guitars with a maple top. I mean Barney Kessel, Wes Montgomery, et al. My understanding is that mahogany is a warm tonewood, which seems great for jazz, at least on the surface, but maple seems to be more typical. Is the mahogany top one reason this guitar is so reasonably priced compared to others?

My other worries are a little more open ended questions. Is it dumb to buy such a single-purpose instrument when I have two nice guitars that are both adequate for my education in jazz? A gentleman at Elderly told me the Eagle has a neck profile somewhere in between a 50's and a 60's style neck, are your experiences similar? I believe the pickup on this guitar is stock, I'll probably change it out, because everyone seems to be doing it. What kinds of tone differences do you guys notice when you compare mounted humbuckers/CC pups/etc with floating pickups on an "acoustic" guitar.

 

Sorry for being so long-winded, but this is a lot of money for me and I am no expert on jazz guitars. And thanks for your advice!

[tulk1]

Hey Conrad,

 

That sounds like a sweet guitar. Couldn't comment on what you'll find with it being all Mahog. Well, maybe a bit darker (warmer?) in tone that if it had the standard Spruce top. (think thats right). But I will comment that its never dumb to buy another Heritage. They have a return policy, don't they?

[killaCONRAD]

Thanks. Yeah, you're right -- I meant spruce or maple, but probably more so spruce.

[Kuz]

I don't know if I am following you.

 

Most archtops are made with one piece maple back & rims. The neck is often mahogany but also maple is common.

 

The tops are either spruce or maple. The old Gibby ES-175s were made of all maple (although not solid maple like Heritages 575s!!!)

 

Then the other traditional Gibby archtops were solid maple with a spruce top.

 

I am not aware of any Heritage archtops with Mahogany back & rims. Could have been a custom order like Mr. Steiner's 575.

[yoslate]

They have a return policy, don't they?

 

Yeah.... They all seem to return to Brent.... As a Big Box (Super Eagle) owner myself, Conrad, very hard to go wrong with archtop Heritage...very....!

[Gitfiddler]

Welcome to the HOC, Conrad. Mahogany archtops are a bit darker sounding than the standard Spruce topped models. (I assumed you meant Spruce, not Maple in your other examples) Others who have commented on their all Mahogany archtops seemed to love their instrument's tone. Elderly should be able to give you an in-hand comparison.

 

The neck profile as described may be a slim carve. Hopefully that is what you desire.

 

As for the floating p'up, they do tend to allow the top to vibrate more than a top-mounted archtop, thereby being a bit more prone to feedback. However, it further depends on the thickness of the Mahogany top. Obviously the thicker the top, the less vibration and feedback.

 

 

Good luck and please let us know how things work oug for you.

[killaCONRAD]

I don't know if I am following you.

 

Most archtops are made with one piece maple back & rims. The neck is often mahogany but also maple is common.

 

The tops are either spruce or maple. The old Gibby ES-175s were made of all maple (although not solid maple like Heritages 575s!!!)

 

Then the other traditional Gibby archtops were solid maple with a spruce top.

 

I am not aware of any Heritage archtops with Mahogany back & rims. Could have been a custom order like Mr. Steiner's 575.

 

 

I'm sure you're right (I corrected myself on the top wood issue, I was mistaken), but there are tons of classic archtops with mahogany back and sides! And the standard Eagle is completely mahogany with a rosewood fretboard.

[killaCONRAD]

Welcome to the HOC, Conrad. Mahogany archtops are a bit darker sounding than the standard Spruce topped models. (I assumed you meant Spruce, not Maple in your other examples) Others who have commented on their all Mahogany archtops seemed to love their instrument's tone. Elderly should be able to give you an in-hand comparison.

 

The neck profile as described may be a slim carve. Hopefully that is what you desire.

 

As for the floating p'up, they do tend to allow the top to vibrate more than a top-mounted archtop, thereby being a bit more prone to feedback. However, it further depends on the thickness of the Mahogany top. Obviously the thicker the top, the less vibration and feedback.

 

 

Good luck and please let us know how things work oug for you.

 

Thanks fiddler! I didn't know about the mounted pickup being a feedback killer, but it makes perfect sense. I'm slightly less skeptical of carved top feedback now, though perhaps it would be wiser to stick with a floating pickup regardless.

[tulk1]

I think the Elderly write up says it's all Mahog, so there's the real culprit. Altho' I see it's been removed from the listings. So ... has the "On Hold" been morphed into a "SOLD"?

[skydog52]

That definitely looks like a spruce top.

Check with Steiner. He has quite a few Hollowbodies.

[Gitfiddler]

To add even more things to think about...........Top vibration also depends on the typ of bracing that supports to top. Cross bracing or Parallel bracing makes a difference in how the top moves.

 

The best bet is to test drive the Eagle with a nice clean amp at Elderly and compare it with another full hollow archtop.

 

I know of at least one member here who has a custom ordered Mahogany 575 (and it is a real beauty!). Hopefully he will check in and respond.

 

Keep us posted. We love this stuff!

[Guest mgoetting]

Hi fellas,

I am considering buying my first Heritage guitar later today. It's the 1999 Eagle that Elderly is selling. I've been playing jazz as a hobby for 5 years or so. I play on a les paul and an arched top acoustic guitar. (Bossa on my nylon string though!) I have never owned a traditional jazz guitar, and in casually looking around at different options, the Eagle immediately jumped out at me. I've called every guitar store in my hometown, and a ton of stores in LA, where I was visiting this weekend. The carved solid top, American handmade, fully hollow guitar with Venetian cutaway and floating pickup for under $2000 just does not exist. Except for a used Eagle, which seems almost perfect.

 

Also, I have to admit, this guy's modded Eagle, which looks just like Barney Kessel's ES-350, helped!

 

But I have a few worries- I have never touched this guitar in person. Elderly is a very reputable store, but I have never bought a guitar over the internet before. The guitar is all mahogany, back top and sides. I am a big LP guy, and I have even been pretty into some all mahogany flat-top acoustic guitars-- I love mahogany! ...But I am pretty sure most of my favorite jazz guitar tones were achieved with guitars with a maple top. I mean Barney Kessel, Wes Montgomery, et al. My understanding is that mahogany is a warm tonewood, which seems great for jazz, at least on the surface, but maple seems to be more typical. Is the mahogany top one reason this guitar is so reasonably priced compared to others?

My other worries are a little more open ended questions. Is it dumb to buy such a single-purpose instrument when I have two nice guitars that are both adequate for my education in jazz? A gentleman at Elderly told me the Eagle has a neck profile somewhere in between a 50's and a 60's style neck, are your experiences similar? I believe the pickup on this guitar is stock, I'll probably change it out, because everyone seems to be doing it. What kinds of tone differences do you guys notice when you compare mounted humbuckers/CC pups/etc with floating pickups on an "acoustic" guitar.

 

Sorry for being so long-winded, but this is a lot of money for me and I am no expert on jazz guitars. And thanks for your advice!

 

Most people are okay with a floating pup but I prefer a mounted one. There are two reasons. First, there MAY be less of a feedback problem. Second, and more important to me, I like to be able to adjust the pup screws, depending on the strings. The downside of a mounted pup is the reduction of top resonance and the need for parallel bracing. But I went from a Golden Eagle to an Eagle Classic and haven't noticed any loss in tone quality.

 

If I had kept the Golden Eagle I might have changed the pup to a neck mounted Johnny Smith kinda thing.

 

Disclaimer: Most guys reading these posts know much more about the topic than I do and probably have a different view.

[killaCONRAD]

I think the Elderly write up says it's all Mahog, so there's the real culprit. Altho' I see it's been removed from the listings. So ... has the "On Hold" been morphed into a "SOLD"?

 

 

Well, I found another Eagle, an '88 on archtop.com, which is also described as having a mahogany top. I'm pretty sure both of those stores wouldn't make the same mistake.

 

....as for the status of the instrument, let's just say that if the charge is submitting to that sweet sweet GAS, I'm guilty on all counts!