The basic 150/157/LP design is oldfashioned and outadated

[cosmikdebriis]

Okay Okay... Before I get Smitten off the forum please read the post.

 

You've got to admit that the design has staying power, over half a century of staying power. But is that necessarily a good thing?

 

Even the most die hard fan would have to admit the fret access is a bit rubbish and it's too Goddam heavy. >

 

So... Why do we still love them so much ???

 

Neck thru, string thru, double cut, coil taps, mixed single and double coils, floating trem, locking nut... etc etc. The list of modern advances is almost endless but they all seem to pass the LP/150 by.

 

Many guitar makes and models come and go, often based on a particular advance in guitar technology, but no modern designs seem to be able to match the LP (or Strat to be fair) for staying power.

 

Because or despite of everything, she endures, pretty much unchanged and with no obvious likely hood of much happening in the future.

BUT WHY !!!

[yoslate]

Not to traffic in the overtly obvious and disguise it as insight, but...uh...it works, and the other stuff is out there, in spades, if you want it?  The same basic marketing strategy as vanilla, chocolate, strawberry, if I may risk a reductio ad absurdum?       

[AaronF]

At risk of stating the obvious, I would say that if you want any of those other options, you could just use another guitar. There are guitars out there that have every combination of the options you just named, and all are pretty popular. All designs have their flaws and strengths, people just end up with ones in which their strengths outweigh their flaws. The reason the LP hasn't changed is because other guitars come along that do those other things in various combinations. Why would Gibson create a SSS pup guitar with dual cutaways and a trem and a locking nut, that is lightweight and call it a Les Paul? Because it isn't a Les Paul! It's a Strat. I think if you look hard enough, you can find a guitar with any combination of the options you, it just won't be called a Les Paul.

[brentrocks]

the way i see it.....Mr Les Paul helped make a guitar that shook the world, it was good for rock, it was good for blues, it was good for country.....it was an innovation in the stringed instrument world that would stand the test of time and is prob and will prob always be the most popular guitar design in the world!!!

[LPSlinger]

Most of us here at HOC have survived the '80's - '90's guitar trends..  the LP design delivers were the others do not. One word: TONE.  ;D

[LH575]

Somebody, please show this man the door.   ;D

[Thundersteel]

The LP-shaped guitar is the only guitar I play that is VERY comfortable to me. The upper fret access doesn't hinder me too much. It's as if the guitar is telling me, "Go ahead--play up here--if you dare!" 

[grayta]

I agree-the design is a bit clunky: too heavy, lousy upper fret access.  That's why I never use one as my primary guitar.

 

But the tone... if you're an electric guitar player you gotta have one.  Nothing sounds exactly like it (but some other things can get close).  The scale, the bridge angle, the woods-they all help create a certain sound and feel.

 

In my perfect world I would have nice, light alder bodied 25 1/2 scale guitar to use for most of a set (heck, I play classic rock-most of my tone is in my pups and my amp) and one mean, kick-ass LP/150 to wield for a few tunes.  8)

[GuitArtMan]

Marylin Monroe still looks good after 50 plus years!

[cosmikdebriis]

Somebody, please show this man the door.  ;D

 

Please don't be upset. the thread is only an avenue for debate.

 

I own many LP shaped guitars from Heritage, Gib**n, Greco, Yamaha etc and from a personal point of view I'd say they are a design classic.

 

However, they're not perfect (nor for that matter even made to the original design). :-X

 

The truly amazing thing to me is that, as some people have already said, they have survived and largely outlived all the technical advances so prevalent in the 80's and are now going stronger than ever.

 

However... Is this down to the design or clever marketing ???

 

As we've already discussed Gib**n can market the BFG half arsed guitar at a phenomenal price and the kids are beating the doors down. >

 

Remember... it's just a debate and everyone should be entitled to their opinion :-*

[W9SIX]

Just like Edison said of Tesla's "AC" electricity. there's no future in it. 

[Gitfiddler]

Sorry guys, but as an official guitar hoochie, I love ALL shapes and sizes of guitars.

 

But the single cutaway, mahogany/maple bodied LP inspired instrument is just SO damned sexy!!  8)

 

 

 

Just be greatful that Lester Paulfous' innovative 'Log guitar' never caught on by famous rockers back in the 50's. 

Otherwise we'd be debating the merits of that fugly monstrosity. 

[Jorgen-Denmark]

Agree with Gitfidler:

 

Every shape has it's charms.

 

Regarding the LP, the look is so classic and sexy (the proportions - Breast / Waist / Hips - is just right).

 

And then there's the sound and sustain which is incomparably.

[Kazwell]

The basic 150/157/LP design is old fashioned and outadated

 

The LP (150/157) design is a classic -pure and simple. And classics never become outdated. Just more expensive. ;D

 

Besides, if you look reeeal close at 90% of those "other" guitars on the market, they all bear a strange resemblence in one way or another to the LP/Strat design. What's that tell ya? 

[Dick Seacup]

Besides, if you look reeeal close at 90% of those "other" guitars on the market, they all bear a strange resemblence in one way or another to the LP/Strat design. What's that tell ya?

 

Not the ones that bear a strange resemblance to the Tele. ;D

[High Flying Bird]

I feel in love with a photo of a black Les Paul being played by Jeff Beck in "The Guitar Handbook."  I saw it on a Thursday and ordered my 150 on Monday and by chance had it on Friday.  I replaced a few parts to make it look just like Beck's. 

 

It had sustain, guts, mellowness, heck anything you might want.  It had the, "Les Paul" sound.  If you want a Rick sound you have to buy a Rick....that type of thing. 

 

That black spine compacting instrument was an animal, yet as gentle as your lady's thigh on your cheek.  That's what this design is all about.

 

I dropped out of playing for about 5 years and when I started back I got the 535.  That long neck was made for me.  I love getting up the skirt on a guitar and the 535 let's me have my way with it.  The best way I can describe it is that the 150 was like Maryanne and the 535 is like Ginger.  You really can't loose either way. 

[Kazwell]

Not the ones that bear a strange resemblance to the Tele.

 

I was going to make mention of the Tele, but it slipped my mind while I was typing. No doubt one of the greatest guitars of all time. Thanks for the catch!!!!

[cosmikdebriis]

Just be greatful that Lester Paulfous' innovative 'Log guitar' never caught on by famous rockers back in the 50's. 

Otherwise we'd be debating the merits of that fugly monstrosity. 

 

Interesting that... There have been some milestones in guitar playing.

 

As I understand it... Hank Marvin from "The Shadows" used to play a Burns guitar, similar to a Strat but with more variety of tone.

 

However Fended came along and sponsored him to play a Strat and that was pretty much it for Burns (who don't seem to have been foresighted enough to have done anything about it).

 

Now if you look at famous guitarists of the 70's and 80's. Many of them list Hank Marvin as one of their influences.

 

Makes you wonder what might have been ???

[Halowords]

Okay Okay... Before I get Smitten off the forum please read the post.

 

You've got to admit that the design has staying power, over half a century of staying power. But is that necessarily a good thing?

 

Even the most die hard fan would have to admit the fret access is a bit rubbish and it's too Goddam heavy. >

 

I totally agree.  I sold my Les Paul a few years ago and got a Hamer Studio.  Basically, I could not justify playing a guitar that expensive and in dead mint condition, and in research I found Hamer.  I love the Studio.  Better upper fret access, which is nice, looks great, has Les Paulish sound.  Yet, here I am getting ready to buy a Heritage H-150 this weekend (sending the money on Friday).  My Hamer is great, and I love it, if you have never tried one they are amazing.  However I like that bassier, thicker, rounder, thicker sound the extra mass seems to add to LP-styled guitars in general.

 

Honestly, there are two things I struggle with.  First, the tone of a Les Paul (or any guitar with all of the same factors, Heritage H-150/157 included) really defines what I want to play most of the time.  Secondly, the design could/should be modified.  A subtle, slightly deeper cut for better fret access that still looked pretty much the same, contours on the back for more comfortable playing/fret-access, a blended neck heel for more comfortable playing of the whole scale.  If THAT LP-style guitar existed, I would be first in line for it.  It does not.  On those issues I expect the H-150 will be a compromise to some extent.  But it is obviously worth it.  Still, those three things would not change the cosmetics of the guitar much, would make it more comfortable, and still keep the beauty of the aesthetics and tone.

 

As for weight . . .  If you can find a light(er) LP-style guitar that still sounds great, that is your solution.  They are out there, but you have to look for them.

 

-Cheers

[LPSlinger]

In 30+ years of playing, I've been through many different body styles & construction; including the most modern design the P*rker Fly; yet, I always

seem to come home to the LP shape. It's the TONE, sex appeal, & cosmetics which draw me like a fly to a flame.

[JohnCovach]

When it comes to guitars, tradition is an important .  New designs come and go, but guitarists tend to gravitate back to those designs that are viewed as "classic."  Not all guitarists do, but many do.

 

As far as fret access goes, those who complain are not likely not those who play a 575, 550, 576, or Sweet 16.

[Gitfiddler]

[quote author=JohnCovach

As far as fret access goes, those who complain are not likely not those who play a 575, 550, 576, or Sweet 16.

 

Amen, Brother!  8)

[cosmikdebriis]

When it comes to guitars, tradition is an important .

 

Please don't misunderstand me and I certainly don't mean to be rude, but... Why???

 

It's possibly "apparent" from sales figures of old designs but I don't see why tradition is inherent in guitar buying.

 

After all musical styles have changed quite dramatically and I would like to think it is the "duty" of musicians to push the envelope and explore new genres.

 

There is certainly a fashion element in guitars that can be popular but on the whole the Strat and LP are pre eminent and from what I can see, likely to be so for the foreseeable future :-

[Kazwell]

The LP design WAS improved upon, by a man named Paul Reed Smith.  I have played some of the upper end PRS guitars. They are truly fantastic. Would I buy one? Probably not. Just doesn't feel right to me to own one. I cannot logically explain it. I guess I  don't feel I belong to the generation that felt a need to improve upon the guitars that started it all.

[Halowords]

When it comes to guitars, tradition is an important .  New designs come and go, but guitarists tend to gravitate back to those designs that are viewed as "classic."  Not all guitarists do, but many do.

 

I disagree.  Kinda.  I think the classics are largely useful, and also have become seen as the norm.  However, I do not think tradition in and of itself is important.  If you create a nice guitar that plays & sounds nice, and looks nice enough to market, you have something that can carve out its own niche and BECOME tradition.

 

As far as fret access goes, those who complain are not likely not those who play a 575, 550, 576, or Sweet 16.

 

I guess I am one of the exceptions.  I like going all across the fretboard.  Not that I am great at it, but I like the range.  And for the most part what I would like to play would be a Heritage H-150 or Gibson Les Paul, or a Heritage H-535 or Gibson ES-335.  That does not mean I am going to shred like a Slayer cover band, but I like having as many options as possible musically.

 

The LP design WAS improved upon, by a man named Paul Reed Smith.  I have played some of the upper end PRS guitars. They are truly fantastic. Would I buy one? Probably not. Just doesn't feel right to me to own one. I cannot logically explain it. I guess I  don't feel I belong to the generation that felt a need to improve upon the guitars that started it all.

 

See, PRS guitars have a quite rabid cult following.  I think they are the best looking guitar.  Period.  Would I buy one?  My Hamer sounds great and is similarly constructed, albeit with a 24.75" scale vs. PRS's typical 25" scale.  And PRS guitars are thinner than the LP dimensions.  Would I buy one?  Sure.  Would I buy one to replace an LP-style guitar?  No.

 

One thing that I WOULD do would be to have an LP with all of the comfort contours, slightly deeper more ergonomically friendly cut for better fret access, and a heelless neck hand made by a luthier or build-from-home builder over at Project Guitar or some other instrument building forum, or learn to do woodwork and build my own.  My design would not be totally traditional.

 

However, it would be easy to improve upon "tradition," just not necessarily worth it financially for Gibson & Fender to do so.  Ibanez has done it with their Super-Strats (rounded heel, more stable trem-system with the Floyd Rose and similar, etc.).  So has G&L, and Jackson, Hamer, Carvin, et al.  Hamer has improved upon Gibson's traditional Les Paul DoubleCut design tremendously (albeit I believe thinner and lighter with the possible change in tone).  Warmoth offers some nice creature-comforts on their Telecaster designs.  Traditional?  No.  Better?  I think so.

 

-Cheers