Buying a Heritage as an investment

[Jazzpunk]

Considering LC's nickname is 'Mr. 335' and he has a signature model Gibson, I'm not so sure how that'll play out.

[JohnCovach]

John: You're pretty much right on, and I agree with much off your comments. However, don't totally discount the possibility of that one, all important artist, discovering the Heritage "mystique" and falling as in love with the brand as we are. It will take just one Larry Carlton, Slash, George Benson, Pat Martino, Eddie Van Halen type of name to push this company to the forefront. And, while that's not so immediately probable . . . given the quality of the Heritage guitars, and the flexibility of the owners to produce what ever a popular artist wants . . . it's not totally impossible either. Every year, around the end of summer, Larry Carlton plays the Blue Note, down town Manhattan (NYC). I've been at his last 4 appearances there, multiple nights each appearance. My American Express Concierge service gets my wife and I stage side seats. I've developed a pretty good relationship with his guitar tech. This year, I am going to bring my H535 and my H555. I use the parking garage right accross the street from the Blue Note. I will leave both guitars in the trunk of my car, locked with the valet key. If Dennis agrees to let Larry look them over and maybe do one or 2 songs with one of them, I'll bring them in. Hey . . . . ya never know. I know that Larry has quite a lucrative contract with Gibson . . . but he also plays Fenders, Valley Arts and other guitars. A few nights of exposure with an H535 or H555 in the hands of that guitar GOD will give Heritage such a bump that they will need to ramp up production to meet demand. The worst he could say is no.

 

Good luck with LC, Mr. 535--perhaps! Considering how scarce Heritage guitars are relative to Gibsons and Fenders, one magazine cover with Eric Clapton or Jeff Beck holding one would probably drive the prices through the roof. But popularity has its downside too, as both Gibson and Fender learned in the late 70s-early 80s.

[Kuz]

John: You're pretty much right on, and I agree with much off your comments. However, don't totally discount the possibility of that one, all important artist, discovering the Heritage "mystique" and falling as in love with the brand as we are. It will take just one Larry Carlton, Slash, George Benson, Pat Martino, Eddie Van Halen type of name to push this company to the forefront. And, while that's not so immediately probable . . . given the quality of the Heritage guitars, and the flexibility of the owners to produce what ever a popular artist wants . . . it's not totally impossible either. Every year, around the end of summer, Larry Carlton plays the Blue Note, down town Manhattan (NYC). I've been at his last 4 appearances there, multiple nights each appearance. My American Express Concierge service gets my wife and I stage side seats. I've developed a pretty good relationship with his guitar tech. This year, I am going to bring my H535 and my H555. I use the parking garage right accross the street from the Blue Note. I will leave both guitars in the trunk of my car, locked with the valet key. If Dennis agrees to let Larry look them over and maybe do one or 2 songs with one of them, I'll bring them in. Hey . . . . ya never know. I know that Larry has quite a lucrative contract with Gibson . . . but he also plays Fenders, Valley Arts and other guitars. A few nights of exposure with an H535 or H555 in the hands of that guitar GOD will give Heritage such a bump that they will need to ramp up production to meet demand. The worst he could say is no.

 

Patrick,

I too love your idea. It may be a crap shoot, but what the heck. Oh, and you are also probably aware that Gibson owns Valley Arts guitars (I do realize LC played a Valley Arts stoptail before Gibby bought them, but I am not sure if that was before LC had his signature 335).

 

Good luck, even one night of "live" exposure would be great.

 

FWIW, I still feel that one player might not make that big a difference. Again, before you joined here, people were saying as Alex Sckolnick gets his signature guitar and all the exposure from Testiment and Trans-Siberian Orchestra that Heritages will be flying off the selves. Well..... really little to no difference.

 

I mean look at the level endorsers tha Heritage has..... KENNY BURRELL for Jazz, ROY CLARK for Country, ALEX SKOLNICK for Rock/Metal, former endorser GARY MOORE for Blues. All of these guys are really HUGE names in there genre, maybe not first teir but close for a guitar company the size of Heritage.

 

LC is my favorite guitarist, I have stated that before, but I think his exposure would be only slightly greater than the current list of endorsees. Johnny Hilland was rumored to have a long scale 535 possibly made for him......

 

My point of all this is that our word of mouth is the most powerful endorsement for a small guitar company like Heritage. Huber, McNaught, McInturff, Robin, ect don't have any of the level endorser that Heritage has. After a while people will just have to listen and seek out quality on their own from advice they have heard from US!!!!

 

Keep up the good work.

[High Flying Bird]

All of the high octane artist Heritage builds for won't do squat for sales as long as the general public doesn't know/care who they are. If one of the Jonas Brothers, not an Allman Brother mind you, played a Heritage we would have a horrible back log at the factory. Then we would be bitchin' about the delays with our custom orders and increased used sales prices. Marv would had a stroke, Ren would commit harakiri with a Bigsby arm and Vince would sit in the factory crying about the good old days.

 

I bought my old HFT445 from Mr. Walker for a song tuned to the key of $750.00 and sold it for almost twice that. It was a good price and if there are ever any hard feelings about it I would be glad to buy it back for what I sold it for.

[pcovers]

The masses flock to Gibson because of the consumer brand association phenomenon. Gibson endorses come and go but the brand loyalty is very strong. I think heritage is what it is and will likely remain- small market players with a loyal following

.

[tulk1]

When the topic turns to endorsees, brand loyalty and such, I like to retell the following story. Don't get turned off that it's a drummer I'm talking about.

 

I worked with a very good, well known local drummer for several years. He was a BIG brand name snob, worse than I am with tube amps. If it wasn't Gibs or Fends then he wasn't interested. Just wasn't anything else out there in his opinion. I, of course, am playing whatever the h*ll I feel like. For a while it was PRS, which just really ragged this guy. Until I finally got one of the Artist Packages in his hand. Then PRS was okay. When I started playing Heritage, well, you can imagine ... only a Gibs is good enough.

 

So, here's the real meat of the story. I told him I was bringing over my H157 for him to see and play (yes, he can play a 6 string). He's all about the Gibs, how Heritage isn't blah blah. So I walk in to his office and he immediately spools up Gary Moore belting out some hot blues. His comment, "Now THAT is what a Les Paul sounds like". My comment, "Really? That happens to be his Heritage Gary Moore Signature he's playing". Dead freakin' silence!! while he stared at the vid.

 

So, whats the point? Big name endorsee (endorser?) and the name brand freak didn't even notice because he expected to see the "other brand".

[Patrick]

Considering LC's nickname is 'Mr. 335' and he has a signature model Gibson, I'm not so sure how that'll play out.

 

Yep . . . it's probably not going to fly and I'm aware of that. But, I think Larry would be more than willing to try it out . . . first in the dressing room under his guitar tech's watchful eye, then if it passes muster, on stage. If for no reason other than curiousity. Think of it when I explain that the same hands that shaped the neck on his beloved 335, also shaped the neck on these 2 guitars. The VERY same hands. I can be pretty compelling when I tell a story . . . especially the 225 Parsons Street story. He'll check it out and maybe even give it a go on stage. Larry is a story teller himself. He loves to interject stories when he performs so he can establish somewhat of a personal rapport with his audience . ... because he can't sing worth a shit. He once told a story, which took 5 minutes (a life time during a live performance) of how he got his current "number 1" ES 335. It's a tobbaco sunburst 1967 with a factory installed stop tail piece. His story;; he was playing a club venue, similar to The Blue Note which is on the small side . . . about 80 to 100 people max, when a guy with a guitar case approached the stage. He told Larry that sever arthritis was preventing him from being able to play guitar anymore, and the he wanted Larry to have his 1967 ES 335, which he bought new back then. Larry's guitar tech bought 2 PAFs off the internet and it has since become his main axe. His tech, Dennis, now refers to it as "Larry's new number 1." It's a beautiful guitar, but I don't like the way Larry plays it. I believe that he will soon, if he hasn't already go back to his original Mr. 335. Think of the possibilities if Larry embraced the guitar and the story . . and then started to tell that story during his performances while holding a 535 or a 555 in his talented hands. I don't know what his contractual obligations are, but I'm gonna give it a try. If I can get him to try it and he likes it . . . I'm gonna ask Jim and Marv to make one that I can give to him.

[Patrick]

All of the high octane artist Heritage builds for won't do squat for sales as long as the general public doesn't know/care who they are. If one of the Jonas Brothers, not an Allman Brother mind you, played a Heritage we would have a horrible back log at the factory. Then we would be bitchin' about the delays with our custom orders and increased used sales prices. Marv would had a stroke, Ren would commit harakiri with a Bigsby arm and Vince would sit in the factory crying about the good old days.

 

I bought my old HFT445 from Mr. Walker for a song tuned to the key of $750.00 and sold it for almost twice that. It was a good price and if there are ever any hard feelings about it I would be glad to buy it back for what I sold it for.

 

I gotta tell you man . . . . you're right on. Their current endorsees aren't that well known, with the exception of Kenny Burrell and maybe Gary Moore. Regarding the Super KB . . . how many performing jazz guitarists can afford $8,000 for a Super KB . . . . especially when the guitar isn't worth that much. Gary Moore isn't exactly Warren Haynes . . . or as you put it the Jonas Bros. And Gary still playes his Gibsons more than he does the Heritages. Hell, I didn't even know who the hell Alex Skolnik was until I heard his name here on HOC. I'm still not sure who the hell he is.

[pcovers]

So, whats the point? Big name endorsee (endorser?) and the name brand freak didn't even notice because he expected to see the "other brand".

 

But the point remains the same. I will bet he did not change his allegiance to Heritage just because he was faced with the reality of the quality of the guitar. He will remain loyal to his branded association, I'd bet anything. Those that align with a brand are not doing so out of objective quality measures and research, it is all about the emotion of association with the brand. That will not change.

[barrymclark]

Hell, I didn't even know who the hell Alex Skolnik was until I heard his name here on HOC. I'm still not sure who the hell he is.

FWIW, Alex Skolnick, in Heavy Metal circles, is VERY well known. This is a positive move for Heritage into more mainstream circles. He isn't the face power of, say, James Hetfield of Metallica, but he is certainly a legendary player in that genre.

[tulk1]

But the point remains the same. I will bet he did not change his allegiance to Heritage just because he was faced with the reality of the quality of the guitar. He will remain loyal to his branded association, I'd bet anything. Those that align with a brand are not doing so out of objective quality measures and research, it is all about the emotion of association with the brand. That will not change.

Bingo!! Altho' he has admited he likes my Millie and Prospect, he hasn't once asked about them or mentioned getting one. But hey, his new Gibs is da'bomb! (see how old i'm getting trying to use 10yr old slang as if it's hip and cool. argh!! oops, i did it again. ... oh no, did it again!)

 

But on that same vein of thought, I get that way with G&L. I don't even want to look at Fender. Except for a few higher end models. I've even looked at Japanese Strat models over current American Strat models. And just went gaga when I saw a pretty G&L (which i bought). So, I'm not entirely free of that malady, myself.

[Patrick]

FWIW, Alex Skolnick, in Heavy Metal circles, is VERY well known. This is a positive move for Heritage into more mainstream circles. He isn't the face power of, say, James Hetfield of Metallica, but he is certainly a legendary player in that genre.

 

Well that explains why I don't know him. But, with what you say being the case with this artist, he is the kind of endorsee that Heritage needs. The "kids" that torture themselves . . . I mean . . . listen to heavy metal are more likely to be able to afford the less expensive Heritages. H150s sell for a lot less than a Golden or Super Eagle. If Alex is as well known as you say he is, than Heritage needs to do a better job of marketing his support for their product. Again and again and again . . . it's about the exposure . . both on stage and in marketing support. But, the reality of it is . . . such a marketing campaign is very expensive.

[Hfan]

It's a gamble but I'm betting these babies will appreciate beyond what I can get with mutual funds over the next ten years.

and no maintenance fees! I've actually had the thought that making a good investment on a guitar is cool as you have a chance to actually enjoy your investment while it hopefully appreciates.

[Kuz]

Well that explains why I don't know him. But, with what you say being the case with this artist, he is the kind of endorsee that Heritage needs. The "kids" that torture themselves . . . I mean . . . listen to heavy metal are more likely to be able to afford the less expensive Heritages. H150s sell for a lot less than a Golden or Super Eagle. If Alex is as well known as you say he is, than Heritage needs to do a better job of marketing his support for their product. Again and again and again . . . it's about the exposure . . both on stage and in marketing support. But, the reality of it is . . . such a marketing campaign is very expensive.

 

Patrick, you just proved my point.

 

Alex is a BIG name in the younger crowd, and despite Alex's very fine interviews in guitar magazines talking up how much he loves the history & hand-made nature of his guitar.....

 

Where are all the young kids Heritage sales????

 

Just because LC endorsed Valley Arts it wasn't enough to save Valley Arts from the hostile Gibson take over.

 

I think you over estimate what an endorsement will do, but I still would like to see a Heritage in Larry Carlton or Johnny Hilland's hands!

[Jazzpunk]

Patrick, you just proved my point.

 

Alex is a BIG name in the younger crowd, and despite Alex's very fine interviews in guitar magazines talking up how much he loves the history & hand-made nature of his guitar.....

 

Where are all the young kids Heritage sales????

 

Just because LC endorsed Valley Arts it wasn't enough to save Valley Arts from the hostile Gibson take over.

 

I think you over estimate what an endorsement will do, but I still would like to see a Heritage in Larry Carlton or Johnny Hilland's hands!

 

I don't know any specific numbers but I would think Skolnicks relationship with Heritage guitars has been great for getting them more exposure. Alex mentioning Heritage in his interviews is certainly raising brand awareness. As mentioned though, it's not going to have the same kind of impact as seeing Clapton on the cover of Rolling Stone with a 535!

 

Honestly, I think it is foolish to try and compete with the 'Gibson' name. Way too many classic images and recordings with Gibson guitars in hand to ever 'win' that battle.

 

The best course of action (and one I think you'd agree with) is to keep making high quality instruments and targeting those of us who want instruments that are well made as well as unique.

 

Collings has done a great job of this with their i35 and CL Deluxe guitars in saying, 'Yes, these are inspired buy the classics but we actually care about quality!'. Their guitars ain't cheap but I don't hear any news of them struggling financially.

[TalismanRich]

I think endorsers can help out a lot if the person has a lot of recognition.

 

How many MLs do you think Dean has sold because of Dimebag Darrell. Peavey sold a lot of 5150s because of EVH. Everyone wanted a 59 LP because Bloomfield, Clapton, Duane, etc played them.

 

There's no guarantee that an endorsement will reap huge rewards, but the staggering number of "signature" guitars would not be out there if having a star use your brand didn't mean anything.

[Kuz]

I don't know any specific numbers but I would think Skolnicks relationship with Heritage guitars has been great for getting them more exposure. Alex mentioning Heritage in his interviews is certainly raising brand awareness. As mentioned though, it's not going to have the same kind of impact as seeing Clapton on the cover of Rolling Stone with a 535!

 

Honestly, I think it is foolish to try and compete with the 'Gibson' name. Way too many classic images and recordings with Gibson guitars in hand to ever 'win' that battle.

 

The best course of action (and one I think you'd agree with) is to keep making high quality instruments and targeting those of us who want instruments that are well made as well as unique.

Collings has done a great job of this with their i35 and CL Deluxe guitars in saying, 'Yes, these are inspired buy the classics but we actually care about quality!'. Their guitars ain't cheap but I don't hear any news of them struggling financially.

 

I agree completely!

 

Acknowledge we came from Gibby, but we are a custom hand-made quality build.

 

NOT a Gibby copy.

 

I'll be honest. When I first heard about Heritage Guitars way back, I thought they were Gibby knock-offs.

 

Collings and McInturff have used your philosophy JP, based off the classic but unique & BETTER than Gibby!

[FredZepp]

I believe that it is probably true that the world of jazz guitarists have done a good job in spreading the word about the Heritage quality in Hollowbodies and Semi-Hollows by just word of mouth.

Even though they are more expensive than the solidbodies generally.. I think that Heritage has maintained a good market in these styles...

 

Many love the solidbodies , of course, and you'd expect to sell a whole lot more of those.. but the Hollow/Semi sales have remained strong.

 

.... IMO.. (hopefully true)